Turbowarp turns scratch code into Javascript, which makes a project (when run on Turbowarp) run faster. However, Turbowarp has some problems. firstly many of us (myself included) hate copy and pasting, bringing up Turbowarp, and waiting for it to load, Just so we can play a lag free game. This is fine for 3d games, but it's just not ok to make 2d games that don't work very well with the website it was created on.
The whole point of coding isn't just to tell a computer to do something, you must also find the fastest way to run the code. If you make a game, it MUST run fast. If you just make a game and give it content, and then when it lags bad just say “Play on Turbowarp” then there is no point in making that game, because there's lag. This is why @Griffpatch is so popular. His Games are lag free, and they are super fun (except for pac-man HD, of course).
Ok, now that I've explained that, let's talk about why scratch is being left for a mod. The answer is quick and simple. Popularity. When we want to get popular, we make a platformer that looks like all the others. When we want to be popular we start asking for hearts and stars. When we want to get popular, we start doing follow for follow (f4f).Of course, this leads to lazily making laggy games, and that leads us to Turbowarp.
Let us now look at @Griffpatch ‘s work. He doesn’t mention hearts, stars, follows, or even tags. This is smart. his games are all popular because he never annoys us by asking for hearts, faves, etc. He only asks you to check out his YouTube channel. The only reason for this is obviously because he joined scratch to help kids code. @Griffpatch is the best example. he treats Turbowarp as a mod, and never talks about it. We should be treating scratch as quality over quantity, and creating games that work.
This is all I have to say, but I think Scratch is split in halve. one side is a bunch of chumps who just want to be popular, and the other makes programs the way programs are meant to be created.

JuvinileGames wrote:

Turbowarp turns scratch code into Java code

JavaScript is not Java.

Rebuttal & small nitpicks time!

Turbowarp turns scratch code into Java code

It's actually JavaScript, there's a big difference there. Without getting too technical, they are two completely different languages, even under the hood.
EDIT: This point was fixed in the OP, the rest of my rebuttal is still accurate though.

However, Turbowarp has some problems. firstly many of us (myself included) hate copy and pasting, bringing up Turbowarp, and waiting for it to load

The first two problems aren't really that bad, it's just laziness. I'm not saying everyone's a lazy potato or something, but it's really not that bad.
The last one is not that bad either, it's the same on the Scratch website.

The whole point of coding isn't just to tell a computer to do something, you must also find the fastest way to run the code.

Not necessarily. Python is mainly used for data science, but almost all the Python code out there is slower than, say, C++. Does that mean that every data science algorithm should be rewritten in C++? No, because Python's better for that purpose.

If you make a game, it MUST run fast. If you just make a game and give it content, and then when it lags bad just say “Play on Turbowarp” then there is no point in making that game, because there's lag.

Some games are unavoidably laggy. Take my game, Slime Horde, for example. It can get kind of laggy, but I tried and tried and could not optimize it further.
Also, Scratch's VM, the thing that's actually running your code, is written in a way that doesn't perform that great. It's why TurboWarp exists in the first place. There's also a hard FPS cap at 30 FPS.

This is why @Griffpatch is so popular. His Games are lag free, and they are super fun (except for pac-man HD, of course).

Not all his games are lag free, I think paper minecraft only runs at 20fps. And laser tag probably runs slower than that. Scratcharia isn't that fast either.

Ok, now that I've explained that, let's talk about why scratch is being left for a mod.

I feel like this is flat out wrong. There is no aspect of TurboWarp that encourages a community around it or anything. People are not making their projects in TurboWarp. People are not moving from Scratch to TurboWarp. People are staying on Scratch. So no, Scratch is not being left for a mod.

his games are all popular because he never annoys us by asking for hearts, faves, etc. He only asks you to check out his YouTube channel.

No? I think he's popular because his games are great and everybody talks about them. “Correlation does not imply causation,” as they say.

The only reason for this is obviously because he joined scratch to help kids code.

Maybe that's true, but you can't assume something based on no knowledge of it at all. It's like saying “Snow is purple” if you don't know what snow is.

This is all I have to say, but I think Scratch is split in halve. one side is a bunch of chumps who just want to be popular, and the other makes programs the way programs are meant to be created.

I feel like that's 90% of scratch, not half

CST1229 wrote:

JuvinileGames wrote:

Turbowarp turns scratch code into Java code

JavaScript is not Java.

I fixed it

Redstone1080 wrote:

Rebuttal & small nitpicks time!

Turbowarp turns scratch code into Java code

It's actually JavaScript, there's a big difference there. Without getting too technical, they are two completely different languages, even under the hood.

However, Turbowarp has some problems. firstly many of us (myself included) hate copy and pasting, bringing up Turbowarp, and waiting for it to load

The first two problems aren't really that bad, it's just laziness. I'm not saying everyone's a lazy potato or something, but it's really not that bad.
The last one is not that bad either, it's the same on the Scratch website.

The whole point of coding isn't just to tell a computer to do something, you must also find the fastest way to run the code.

Not necessarily. Python is mainly used for data science, but almost all the Python code out there is slower than, say, C++. Does that mean that every data science algorithm should be rewritten in C++? No, because Python's better for that purpose.

If you make a game, it MUST run fast. If you just make a game and give it content, and then when it lags bad just say “Play on Turbowarp” then there is no point in making that game, because there's lag.

Some games are unavoidably laggy. Take my game, Slime Horde, for example. It can get kind of laggy, but I tried and tried and could not optimize it further.
Also, Scratch's VM, the thing that's actually running your code, is written in a way that doesn't perform that great. It's why TurboWarp exists in the first place. There's also a hard FPS cap at 30 FPS.

This is why @Griffpatch is so popular. His Games are lag free, and they are super fun (except for pac-man HD, of course).

Not all his games are lag free, I think paper minecraft only runs at 20fps. And laser tag probably runs slower than that. Scratcharia isn't that fast either.

Ok, now that I've explained that, let's talk about why scratch is being left for a mod.

I feel like this is flat out wrong. There is no aspect of TurboWarp that encourages a community around it or anything. People are not making their projects in TurboWarp. People are not moving from Scratch to TurboWarp. People are staying on Scratch. So no, Scratch is not being left for a mod.

his games are all popular because he never annoys us by asking for hearts, faves, etc. He only asks you to check out his YouTube channel.

No? I think he's popular because his games are great and everybody talks about them. “Correlation does not imply causation,” as they say.

The only reason for this is obviously because he joined scratch to help kids code.

Maybe that's true, but you can't assume something based on no knowledge of it at all. It's like saying “Snow is purple” if you don't know what snow is.

This is all I have to say, but I think Scratch is split in halve. one side is a bunch of chumps who just want to be popular, and the other makes programs the way programs are meant to be created.

I feel like that's 90% of scratch, not half

Ok, let me break things down. first of all, Griffpatch DID join scratch to help kids code. He said it in his story. Also, you should notice that he doesn't do that Like fave stuff. also, I'm not talking about Python. Python sucks. All other programs should be made to run fast. oh, and I meant it literally when I said scratch is being left for a mod. The community is fine. oh, and stop putting this topic down. it's important.

Griffpatch DID join scratch to help kids code. He said it in his story.

Oh, sorry, I was not aware of that. maybe include that in the OP?

Also, you should notice that he doesn't do that Like fave stuff.

Yes but it's not why he's popular.

also, I'm not talking about Python. Python sucks. All other programs should be made to run fast.

What about rendering programs that render photorealistic 3d images, like the Cycles renderer in Blender? They need to take their time, to get the best picture. It's nice if it runs fast, but if it doesn't look good at all, what's the point?

oh, and I meant it literally when I said scratch is being left for a mod. The community is fine.

Turbowarp exists to make Scratch projects run faster, not to replace it or anything. I personally think it's fine that so many people use it. It's not indicative of a project's quality if they tell you to use it - some people don't have RTX 4090s and Ryzen 7950Xes and just have low-end school Chromebooks.

oh, and stop putting this topic down. it's important.

I wasn't putting this topic down. I was providing a well-made rebuttal to your argument.

Redstone1080 wrote:

Griffpatch DID join scratch to help kids code. He said it in his story.

Oh, sorry, I was not aware of that. maybe include that in the OP?

Also, you should notice that he doesn't do that Like fave stuff.

Yes but it's not why he's popular.

also, I'm not talking about Python. Python sucks. All other programs should be made to run fast.

What about rendering programs that render photorealistic 3d images, like the Cycles renderer in Blender? They need to take their time, to get the best picture. It's nice if it runs fast, but if it doesn't look good at all, what's the point?

oh, and I meant it literally when I said scratch is being left for a mod. The community is fine.

Turbowarp exists to make Scratch projects run faster, not to replace it or anything. I personally think it's fine that so many people use it. It's not indicative of a project's quality if they tell you to use it - some people don't have RTX 4090s and Ryzen 7950Xes and just have low-end school Chromebooks.

oh, and stop putting this topic down. it's important.

I wasn't putting this topic down. I was providing a well-made rebuttal to your argument.

your right. does blender run Minecraft: Java edition?

JuvinileGames wrote:

(#7)

Redstone1080 wrote:

Griffpatch DID join scratch to help kids code. He said it in his story.

Oh, sorry, I was not aware of that. maybe include that in the OP?

Also, you should notice that he doesn't do that Like fave stuff.

Yes but it's not why he's popular.

also, I'm not talking about Python. Python sucks. All other programs should be made to run fast.

What about rendering programs that render photorealistic 3d images, like the Cycles renderer in Blender? They need to take their time, to get the best picture. It's nice if it runs fast, but if it doesn't look good at all, what's the point?

oh, and I meant it literally when I said scratch is being left for a mod. The community is fine.

Turbowarp exists to make Scratch projects run faster, not to replace it or anything. I personally think it's fine that so many people use it. It's not indicative of a project's quality if they tell you to use it - some people don't have RTX 4090s and Ryzen 7950Xes and just have low-end school Chromebooks.

oh, and stop putting this topic down. it's important.

I wasn't putting this topic down. I was providing a well-made rebuttal to your argument.

your right. does blender run Minecraft: Java edition?

No, but some programs don't need to run as fast as they can, they just need to run fast enough.
we're not gonna talk about how Java edition is relatively slow anyway

Scratch mods are better to use when they provide convenience features like the “for x in range” block or an opacity setting in the paint editor, or if it would just let the project run faster because of JS compilation.

If you want to use these convenience features or if your project is required to run fast, you should use a mod of Scratch, otherwise you'd rather use regular Scratch since it's much more integrated with the rest of the platform.

Redstone1080 wrote:

JuvinileGames wrote:

(#7)

Redstone1080 wrote:

Griffpatch DID join scratch to help kids code. He said it in his story.

Oh, sorry, I was not aware of that. maybe include that in the OP?

Also, you should notice that he doesn't do that Like fave stuff.

Yes but it's not why he's popular.

also, I'm not talking about Python. Python sucks. All other programs should be made to run fast.

What about rendering programs that render photorealistic 3d images, like the Cycles renderer in Blender? They need to take their time, to get the best picture. It's nice if it runs fast, but if it doesn't look good at all, what's the point?

oh, and I meant it literally when I said scratch is being left for a mod. The community is fine.

Turbowarp exists to make Scratch projects run faster, not to replace it or anything. I personally think it's fine that so many people use it. It's not indicative of a project's quality if they tell you to use it - some people don't have RTX 4090s and Ryzen 7950Xes and just have low-end school Chromebooks.

oh, and stop putting this topic down. it's important.

I wasn't putting this topic down. I was providing a well-made rebuttal to your argument.

your right. does blender run Minecraft: Java edition?

No, but some programs don't need to run as fast as they can, they just need to run fast enough.
we're not gonna talk about how Java edition is relatively slow anyway

well, then blender sucks

JuvinileGames wrote:

(#10)
well, then blender sucks

Minecraft Java wasn't even made with Blender

ajskateboarder wrote:

JuvinileGames wrote:

(#10)
well, then blender sucks

Minecraft Java wasn't even made with Blender

exactly

JuvinileGames wrote:

well, then blender sucks

Minecraft is almost entirely blocks, and is probably optimized specifically to render those. Blender doesn't get those optimizations, because it has to handle everything else, and other stuff that I probably don't know of.

JuvinileGames wrote:

Turbowarp turns scratch code into Javascript, which makes a project (when run on Turbowarp) run faster. However, Turbowarp has some problems. firstly many of us (myself included) hate copy and pasting, bringing up Turbowarp, and waiting for it to load, Just so we can play a lag free game. This is fine for 3d games, but it's just not ok to make 2d games that don't work very well with the website it was created on.
The whole point of coding isn't just to tell a computer to do something, you must also find the fastest way to run the code. If you make a game, it MUST run fast. If you just make a game and give it content, and then when it lags bad just say “Play on Turbowarp” then there is no point in making that game, because there's lag. This is why @Griffpatch is so popular. His Games are lag free, and they are super fun (except for pac-man HD, of course).
Ok, now that I've explained that, let's talk about why scratch is being left for a mod. The answer is quick and simple. Popularity. When we want to get popular, we make a platformer that looks like all the others. When we want to be popular we start asking for hearts and stars. When we want to get popular, we start doing follow for follow (f4f).Of course, this leads to lazily making laggy games, and that leads us to Turbowarp.
Let us now look at @Griffpatch ‘s work. He doesn’t mention hearts, stars, follows, or even tags. This is smart. his games are all popular because he never annoys us by asking for hearts, faves, etc. He only asks you to check out his YouTube channel. The only reason for this is obviously because he joined scratch to help kids code. @Griffpatch is the best example. he treats Turbowarp as a mod, and never talks about it. We should be treating scratch as quality over quantity, and creating games that work.
This is all I have to say, but I think Scratch is split in halve. one side is a bunch of chumps who just want to be popular, and the other makes programs the way programs are meant to be created.

It has other features

There's one thing you don't know about Turbowarp: There are no accounts or communities.


I don't get what you're saying here. Many popular Scratchers (like Vadik1, awesome-llama, and others) that use turbowarp to make their stuff run faster because the projects are big and mighty fun, only if it runs quick enough.

And to answer the title, yes you should if you need to.

PkmnQ wrote:

(#13)

JuvinileGames wrote:

well, then blender sucks

Minecraft is almost entirely blocks, and is probably optimized specifically to render those. Blender doesn't get those optimizations, because it has to handle everything else, and other stuff that I probably don't know of.

when rendering, a material may have several different high-quality textures and be lit realistically by several different light sources. blender also has thousands of individual features contributing to the render. compare this with minecraft, which is a bunch of simple blocks with (usually) only one texture, being lit with an incredibly simple light shader.

(Use) mods to make advanced programs. Remember, scratch is a friendly tool to start coding easily. Mods introduce people to harder level of coding imo

JuvinileGames wrote:

Turbowarp turns scratch code into Javascript, which makes a project (when run on Turbowarp) run faster. However, Turbowarp has some problems.

JuvinileGames wrote:

firstly many of us (myself included) hate copy and pasting, bringing up Turbowarp, and waiting for it to load, Just so we can play a lag free game.

I use SA, which has the ability to launch the turbowarp launcher from scratch.

JuvinileGames wrote:

The whole point of coding isn't just to tell a computer to do something, you must also find the fastest way to run the code.

JuvinileGames wrote:

If you make a game, it MUST run fast.

Good luck making a fast scratch project with a lot of stuff. Turbowarp exists primarily for that reason.

JuvinileGames wrote:

If you just make a game and give it content, and then when it lags bad just say “Play on Turbowarp” then there is no point in making that game, because there's lag.

Obviously, a 4th grader's pong game would be laggier than a game made by a AAA company.

JuvinileGames wrote:

This is why @Griffpatch is so popular. His Games are lag free, and they are super fun (except for pac-man HD, of course).

Maybe for Untitled-1, but some of his projects run slow as well!

JuvinileGames wrote:

Ok, now that I've explained that, let's talk about why scratch is being left for a mod. The answer is quick and simple. Popularity.

Popularity is a contributor, yes. But TurboWarp also holds power that regular scratch doesn't have.

JuvinileGames wrote:

When we want to get popular, we make a platformer that looks like all the others. When we want to be popular we start asking for hearts and stars. When we want to get popular, we start doing follow for follow (f4f).

Unfortunately, this is true. F4F / asking for hearts and stars / generic platformers are a thing on Scratch.

JuvinileGames wrote:

Of course, this leads to lazily making laggy games, and that leads us to Turbowarp.

“Making programs as they were meant to be made” - as you put it later on - is the main goal of Turbowarp, not “making the 4th grader's pong game run super duper fast”.

JuvinileGames wrote:

Let us now look at @Griffpatch‘s work. He doesn’t mention hearts, stars, follows, or even tags. This is smart. his games are all popular because he never annoys us by asking for hearts, faves, etc.

I'm not arguing with the first part, but his games aren't popular exclusively for that reason. Maybe in the beginning, but I think his more recent games are popular because Griffpatch himself is popular.

JuvinileGames wrote:

The only reason for this is obviously because he joined scratch to help kids code.

JuvinileGames wrote:

@Griffpatch is the best example. he treats Turbowarp as a mod, and never talks about it.

On his older videos, he namedropped SA quite a bit, even going to the extent as to linking it. So.

JuvinileGames wrote:

We should be treating scratch as quality over quantity, and creating games that work.

JuvinileGames wrote:

This is all I have to say, but I think Scratch is split in halve. one side is a bunch of chumps who just want to be popular, and the other makes programs the way programs are meant to be created.

I actually have been using turbo warp instead of scratch because it has a lot of useful extensions

JuvinileGames wrote:

I'm not talking about Python. Python sucks. All other programs should be made to run fast.

Scratch is many many times slower than python (and probably turbowarp for that matter too).