Adzboy wrote:

ItzRedwing wrote:

Adzboy wrote:

Is this a question?

Is what a question?

Original post

This is Questions about Scratch after all

No.

qloakonscratch wrote:

A few things; the updates are really not for enjoyment. They are more for security, which takes priority over enjoyment. Also, the CG hasn't been updated since 2016, please do research.

I understand that the updates aren't for enjoyment, but they really used to be. Think about the jump from 1.0 to 2.0, it added so many fun and unique features to the point where the website was so much more fun to be on. And as for the CG comment, I think you're forgetting about the update a few years back about “embracing remix culture” that basically enabled people to recolor art on Scratch as long as they gave credit (although the latter part wasn't enforced).

The Scratch Team is not going to change this. There are other methods of collaboration, while there are not many other methods for fixing the problem of unshared projects. The unshared projects thing was not a feature, it was a glitch. It was heavily unintended, and the only reason it stayed for this long is that the ST had no way to fix it. They only just recently got the means of doing this. So no, they aren't stripping features away. They are fixing bugs that have been exploited to points beyond.

I understand that it was never supposed to be a feature, but the fact that the community considers it as one says something. This is a problem with large software or game developers nowadays; the moment they find a bug, whether harmless or not, they patch it. But in all reality, some of these “bugs” make the program what it is. Think the BLJ from Super Mario 64, or the Back in Time glitches in the Zelda Games, although both were eventually patched they were really fun to play around with, and brought more people to the game then drove them away.

NamelessCat wrote:

qloakonscratch wrote:

A few things; the updates are really not for enjoyment. They are more for security, which takes priority over enjoyment. Also, the CG hasn't been updated since 2016, please do research.

I understand that the updates aren't for enjoyment, but they really used to be. Think about the jump from 1.0 to 2.0, it added so many fun and unique features to the point where the website was so much more fun to be on. And as for the CG comment, I think you're forgetting about the update a few years back about “embracing remix culture” that basically enabled people to recolor art on Scratch as long as they gave credit (although the latter part wasn't enforced).

That wasn't an update to TOS. It has always been like that. The reason there aren't many updates for enjoyment is that there really isn't any need to. The ST have priorities.

The Scratch Team is not going to change this. There are other methods of collaboration, while there are not many other methods for fixing the problem of unshared projects. The unshared projects thing was not a feature, it was a glitch. It was heavily unintended, and the only reason it stayed for this long is that the ST had no way to fix it. They only just recently got the means of doing this. So no, they aren't stripping features away. They are fixing bugs that have been exploited to points beyond.

I understand that it was never supposed to be a feature, but the fact that the community considers it as one says something. This is a problem with large software or game developers nowadays; the moment they find a bug, whether harmless or not, they patch it. But in all reality, some of these “bugs” make the program what it is. Think the BLJ from Super Mario 64, or the Back in Time glitches in the Zelda Games, although both were eventually patched they were really fun to play around with, and brought more people to the game then drove them away.

Just because the community considers it a feature doesn't mean anything. It's still a bug. The example you're talking about doesn't change anything. Those bugs didn't allow people to steal other people's projects, and sometimes their personal info. It's not a very valid comparison. Overall, I don't really understand your argument. It sounds like you want something back because of something that you want to do, not caring about the other people who may be affected by it in a negative way. The community is not the developer team behind Scratch, and most of them do not know much about this security breach, just knowing that it can be used in collaborations.

You need to consider both the pros and the cons. Pros of unshared projects being able to be accessed are the most obvious. People can beta test game, send voice acting lines, do animation collabs and such. Awesome. Well, yes, but no. While the cons are certainly less likely things, they can still happen. The main problems are the potential for entirely unmoderated chat, stealing unshared content, viewing more “personal” projects people make for their irl family and friends which may include personal info or pictures. How big of issues are these?
Unmoderated chatting may not seem like a problem, and it hardly is. There's plenty of other things people can chat on and such. And there really isn't a whole lot one could say that would be a problem in moderated chat. Certainly doesn't seem like an issue right? Well, not really, but the key is to remember what Scratch is for. Certainly not for the purpose of chatting. Doing it through Turbowarp is tedious and inconvenient. But hey, it's still there.

Stealing projects seems like it'd be super hard. And yes. It would be. I've actually found a project that was an incredibly massive and skillfully made racing game. The maker's username was on the thumbnail, so I found them, and they had the game shared actually, turns out it was just a version for updating. Doesn't make the issue not a thing. While stealing projects seems unlikely and it is, it could be a problem. Is it a problem? Not really. But it's still potentially there.

What about personal projects that people make but not for the purpose of sharing? Yep, I've done this, and so have a lot of other people. People make projects that are something made for their family or friends to see. It's not meant to be shared, and not meant to be seen. But with the API having such a flaw that Turbowarp and other Scratch clients can access it leaves the possibility that somebody might be able to find it. Likely? Eh, probably not, but still a possible issue.

Now we get to what I really wanted to talk about, which I consider the real issue. Banned projects. Sure, some projects like Battle Bound are banned and that sucks, but a lot of projects are banned for a good reason. And so what if somebody sees that this project was shared, but it's not on their profile? Well, they might decide to Turbowarp it in order to see what it had been. And while most of the time it's probably banned for something trivial, what if it's banned for something actually significant. Only 1 in every few thousand Scratchers will ever find something of this sort, and even fewer will find something that is truly bad. Hello, I'm that guy. One of them. I was stupid and decided to find out why a project got banned. I'm not going to say why, but it certainly deserved to be banned. Younger me experienced what most Scratchers never will, but if this update got reversed, could.

The update also has a lot to do with security, as projects could be accessed through other means if you knew how to do it. Turbowarp was just an easy way to do it for those who weren't skilled with technology. This was probably brought to the ST's attention by Turbowarp and other similar clients, as they could be used to exploit this flaw. But that's not why they were made. Early ones like Forkphorus were made to run huge Scratch projects easier. Turbowarp was simply the next step, basically a vastly improved Scratch editor. The purpose was not to view unshared projects, it was just an unavoidable glitch.

You're really looking at this negatively, it takes away something people used, but they don't need it. It's not like they took out block from the editor or something. They aren't actually harming the site. Turbowarp never had this as an intended “feature” so the ST isn't actually removing anything, but simply making their site more secure and safe.

qloakonscratch wrote:

~ snip ~

Are you both really going to argue over this? I don't really see a point in it.

ItzRedwing wrote:

qloakonscratch wrote:

~ snip ~

Are you both really going to argue over this? I don't really see a point in it.

I'm trying to tell her that this update is a good one, maybe not for people's enjoyment, but for sure for their wellbeing.

NamelessCat wrote:

(#1)
However, what I cannot agree with is how they handled the notification of the update. Around a year ago, we were told that at some point in the near future they would cut off the ability to see unshared projects using their website. Then, as of a few days ago, most of us forgot about the notification until suddenly it turned red and was put into place. Even though we were warned about it, the way they handled it made it really feel like it came out of nowhere. Not even to mention the message itself felt passive-aggressive. Refer to this line from the change log:

Don't pretend that no one has had their project stolen because they didn't know unshared projects aren't actually private even though the Scratch website says “only you can see it”.

The scratch team NEVER told anyone about this. I believe that all the talk was between themselves at the github. The scratch community found out 6 months before it happened that the change was going to happen. The message you were talking about has nothing to do with the ST. Turbowarp is independently created and maintained by @garbomuffin and how nothing to do with the ST. They were the one that created the “passive-aggressive” message, not the ST. I would recommend taking this part out of your post.

I understand the scratch team's reasoning if it says only you can see it it should be where only you can see it. but at the same time being able to access unshared projects on TurboWarp is a very useful feature (even if it was unintended). the very least scratch could do is provide some kind of way to share
projects with a limited number of people (however this could also cause some issues). I feel like there really is no solution here that everyone will be happy with.

qloakonscratch wrote:

ItzRedwing wrote:

qloakonscratch wrote:

~ snip ~

Are you both really going to argue over this? I don't really see a point in it.

I'm trying to tell her that this update is a good one, maybe not for people's enjoyment, but for sure for their wellbeing.

I know, I've been reading the whole thing. And honestly, I get it, but everyone has their own opinions about t=new Scratch updates.

It got rejected I believe.

Za-Chary wrote:

3.6 Ability to see Scratchers' unshared projects
If a Scratch project is unshared, then it is not intended to be seen by anybody other than the project creator and the Scratch Team. Allowing anybody to view unshared projects made by other Scratchers has the potential for abuse: Scratch projects could be leaked before they are ready to be shared, personal information could be exchanged, or someone could encounter inappropriate content that was intended to be removed from the Scratch website. Keeping unshared projects hidden from other Scratchers helps prevent this abuse from happening.

While the Scratch Team is open to implementing features to make collaboration easier, allowing Scratchers to view others' unshared projects is not the solution. For more information, see this post.

And it really doesn't take that long to just download it lol

This update was made for obvious reasons, ranging from stopping people from stealing others' projects to the own viewers safety, and there were so many problems that were fixed with this update, that I can't understand what's wrong with it. As for playtesting, why not ask friends and family for suggestions? Why not share a separate beta version? Why not ask for suggestions in the forums? Concluding, this was a good security update, enjoyable or not.

I contacted them about this. and does anyone remember the fnaf controversy?

this is unfair and you are crazy. HOW THE HECK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DOWNLOAD AN UNSHARED PROJECT!?