Put smiley faces after every moderator action.

-iviedwall-

--Optimum-- wrote:
-iviedwall- wrote:
Tbh smileys are more sarcastic than kind for me, take a look at this:
Smileys aren’t all sarcastic, just take the one on the forums for example:
Quantum-Cat wrote:
Adding emojis can often make things less formal and serious, and such messages are meant to be more serious than usual to discourage people from doing something bad again. Also from information that I have seen, I don’t think that they are unkind; alerts use words like ‘please’ which still maintains the tone, but make them more approachable.
They might come off as overly threatening, and that’s why so many users complain about them so much. Also, I don’t think that they would come off as less serious, maybe just less threatening.

1. Many smileys are designed to cause misunderstandings and conflicts because their smile is so big that they almost reach the eyes. In contrast, the eyes are still wide open (it’s supposed to close a bit), making the smile look unnatural. An unnatural smiley means that you are not feeling happy or positive at all. Alerts and warnings are supposed to be read in a neutral tone, not a sarcastic tone.
2. A weakness of emojis is that the same emoji looks different on different operating systems or even applications. Like the Face with Hand Over Mouth which appears to have smiling eyes on some platforms, and open/non-smiling eyes on others, creating huge confusion.

Last edited by -iviedwall- (July 9, 2022 04:14:14)

--Optimum--

Za-Chary wrote:
--Optimum-- wrote:
But it's different for kids. Kids are a little more sensitive to that so they get smiles when being told not to do something more (I think). Also, I think people would be more like “Ah, okay. I shouldn't do this anymore. /neu”, not “The people running the website told me not to do something, but there's a smiley face so it's fine.”
Exactly — if they think that, then they could think “The people running the website told me not to do something, but there's a smiley face, so it really doesn't matter what I did.” It's a similar reason why you would not reward a child with apple pie for bad behavior. Say a child breaks a lamp because they were throwing a football in the house. If you say to the child, “Hey, don't throw footballs in the house, here's some apple pie,” then the child could associate misbehaving with getting rewarded (with pie), so they may be tempted to misbehave even more. This sort of effect, I would think, is especially prevalent in children. By sounding too positive when reprimanding a child, they may associate misbehaving with positivity — and that's not good.

I'm no parent, but with parenting in general I'm pretty sure you don't want to reward bad behavior. As I said earlier, children need to understand if they did something wrong, and by relaying this message in an overly-positive manner, they may get mixed messages about how they should behave.

I feel like it’s less rewarding and more being polite. It’s like saying “You’re not in trouble, but don’t do this again.” I’ve heard this before and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.

-iviedwall- wrote:
--Optimum-- wrote:
-iviedwall- wrote:
Tbh smileys are more sarcastic than kind for me, take a look at this:
Smileys aren’t all sarcastic, just take the one on the forums for example:
Quantum-Cat wrote:
Adding emojis can often make things less formal and serious, and such messages are meant to be more serious than usual to discourage people from doing something bad again. Also from information that I have seen, I don’t think that they are unkind; alerts use words like ‘please’ which still maintains the tone, but make them more approachable.
They might come off as overly threatening, and that’s why so many users complain about them so much. Also, I don’t think that they would come off as less serious, maybe just less threatening.
1. Many smileys are designed to cause misunderstandings and conflicts because their smile is so big that they almost reach the eyes. In contrast, the eyes are still wide open (it’s supposed to close a bit), making the smile look unnatural. An unnatural smiley means that you are not feeling happy or positive at all. Alerts and warnings are supposed to be read in a neutral tone, not a sarcastic tone.
2. A weakness of emojis is that the same emoji looks different on different operating systems or even applications. Like the Face with Hand Over Mouth which appears to have smiling eyes on some platforms, and open/non-smiling eyes on others, creating huge confusion.

1. I don’t think they were designed to cause confusion, but still, we can just use a different one.
2. I think a light hearted smile will probably look the same on most OSs.
Also, we can just use emoticons anyway. It doesn’t really matter.

k0d3rrr

Za-Chary wrote:
I think this is less of a problem of emoji usage and more of a problem of word choice. Note that in my post, I state that the user should use the link to “keep the conversation in one place.” Despite the lack of emoji, I claim this sounds friendlier than telling them to “avoid cluttering up the forums.” By telling the user to avoid doing something, and using a negative-connotation word like “cluttering,” I can certainly see why someone might read that and think of it as a negative post. In fact, that makes the problem worse with an emoji: if the wording is already negative, a smiley face would definitely come across as sarcastic (“Why are you smiling about a negative thing?”). So in that case I would rather see this:
This is a duplicate. To keep the conversation in one place, please continue the discussion in the link above.
than this:
This is a duplicate. Please continue the discussion there to avoid cluttering up the forums. Thanks!

First of all, I agree that phrasing is key when using the forums. However, that's just how I wrote my example about what I might (not) say when someone's made a duplicate.

Second, the part that says “Thanks!

” is meant to be friendly, from my viewpoint. That's why I try to add that to the end of some of my posts.

Za-Chary wrote:
I could excuse a smiley face in the first example because it seems to frame things in a nonnegative manner, to the point where adding a smiley face doesn't really change the message (and, perhaps, might even make it friendlier). But with the second example, it's a lose-lose situation. Without a smiley face, the post definitely comes across as negative. But with a smiley face, due to that negative word choice, it comes across as sarcastic. I guess the lesson here is that you only get one bite of the apple when posting, so to speak, so you may as well try to phrase a post (without emojis) in the most positive way possible before trying to add any emojis.

You don't get it. It's basically like a school analogy, in the sense that you are the teacher, and everyone else is your students.

When someone makes a duplicate, you “teach” them that making suggestions that have been suggested before (sort of) floods and “cramps” the forums with these topics. Throughout their time on the forums, they quickly learn that unique suggestions are a great way to go. (I learnt this quickly when I had suggested a delete all clones block, which was a duplicate, even though I wasn't told that before.)

I don't want to be comedic here (even though I think the forums are very disappointing sometimes), but you possibly can get more than one bite out of the apple that is the forums, because you can strike back again and again, putting your opinions forward, and arguing against each other.

Za-Chary wrote:
The question from here, then, is whether or not the Scratch Team's alert messages are already worded in a negative manner. I claim they are not — but if some do think they are, then adding a smiley face at the end could certainly cause the message to seem sarcastic, having the opposite effect of what this suggestion aims to solve.

The Scratch Team's alert messages aren't worded in a negative manner, but rather in a “threatening” manner that teaches the user that what they're doing is not permitted on the website, with the potential to be banned.

Za-Chary wrote:
Nope — not in alerts.

I think some Scratch Team members do this. I get your lesson here, Za-Chary, that a smiley face would make alerts feel sarcastic. However, it could also take some pressure off the drama. You don't want Scratchers to be frightened that they got an alert.

TurtleLegos

————
| bump |
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The above bump was carried by penguins from the Arctic.

Eagle138

A lot of people have said stuff I want to reply to, so if you have written a really long post, please read this and see if it applies to you.

Firstly, a smiley face is not a reward. It's essentially the same as a tone indicator, except that it can be interpreted differently. Kids aren't gonna continue to be bad so they can get smiley faces. Anyway, as long as the rest of the message explains things clearly and isn't too harsh, a smiley face wouldn't change much, just soften it a little. If the rest of the message is too harsh, it could be interpreted sarcastically.

Secondly, it's not just about punishment and reward. This might be just my opinion, but I don't think kids will actually change their behaviour unless they understand why they've done something wrong, and why it matters that they'redoing it, and why they shouldn't do it again. I honestly don't think that warnings should be worded threateningly in the first place: they should be nicer and more explanatory. Smiley faces might help, but I think that if they were interpreted the wrong way it could just make the message even more confusing.

I agree with @k0d3rrr's school analogy here: it's about what you teach them more so than how.

Overall, I'm on the fence. I do think that smileys could help soften some warnings, but if interpreted wrongly, they could cause even more confusion and anger.

Last edited by Eagle138 (July 18, 2022 05:28:35)

--Optimum--

bump

--Optimum--

Bump

--Optimum--

bump

Crow_Boy08

We banned you for breaking rules. You are not welcome

It just looks like they like people being banned

musicROCKS013

Crow_Boy08 wrote:
We banned you for breaking rules. You are not welcome
It just looks like they like people being banned

Read the OP

--Optimum-- wrote:
We don't want it to be like:
Scratch team has blocked your account for breaking the rules. You are not welcome on scratch.

SavetheAtlantic

Please be more friendly when commenting, even if you think they've done something wrong. If you see a mean thing from someone else, don't respond and instead report them to the Scratch Team and we'll sort it out. Thanks!

- Scratch Team

Here is the comment that led to this message:
“I know where you live and will skin you alive”

-Cold-lord-X-

SavetheAtlantic wrote:
Please be more friendly when commenting, even if you think they've done something wrong. If you see a mean thing from someone else, don't respond and instead report them to the Scratch Team and we'll sort it out. Thanks! - Scratch Team

Here is the comment that led to this message:
“I know where you live and will skin you alive”

why did i laugh at this

Support, but it should be optional for the moderators.

Za-Chary

-Cold-lord-X- wrote:
Support, but it should be optional for the moderators.

It's already optional, in a sense, as there's nothing currently stopping moderators from putting a smiley face at the end of alerts. They are fully able to start doing it right now, if they want to. I suspect they don't really want to, however, due to the aforementioned fears of coming across as sarcastic or unfriendly.

--Optimum--

SavetheAtlantic wrote:
(#31)
Please be more friendly when commenting, even if you think they've done something wrong. If you see a mean thing from someone else, don't respond and instead report them to the Scratch Team and we'll sort it out. Thanks! - Scratch Team

Here is the comment that led to this message:
“I know where you live and will skin you alive”

There is no possible way that won't result in a “if you continue to post comments like this, you will be blocked.” or a ban, both of which don't have smileys.

ScolderCreations

Thank you for sending a message. Unfortunately, we have determined that the amount of inappropriate choices you have made means you are no longer welcome on Scratch

DarthVader4Life

ScolderCreations wrote:
Thank you for sending a message. Unfortunately, we have determined that the amount of inappropriate choices you have made means you are no longer welcome on Scratch

They've specifically stated that those messages wouldn't have the smiley face, but I do get your point.
Honestly, all a smiley face does is send a vibe that says “Please like us” or “Screw you buddy.”
If you got rid the smiley face for all the messages that could potentially convey “Screw you buddy,” then I feel like most, or at least the majority, of the moderator messages wouldn't have the smiley.

-Cold-lord-X-

Za-Chary wrote:
-Cold-lord-X- wrote:
Support, but it should be optional for the moderators.
It's already optional, in a sense, as there's nothing currently stopping moderators from putting a smiley face at the end of alerts. They are fully able to start doing it right now, if they want to. I suspect they don't really want to, however, due to the aforementioned fears of coming across as sarcastic or unfriendly.

So basically it’s already implemented?

SavetheAtlantic

--Optimum-- wrote:
SavetheAtlantic wrote:
(#31)
Please be more friendly when commenting, even if you think they've done something wrong. If you see a mean thing from someone else, don't respond and instead report them to the Scratch Team and we'll sort it out. Thanks! - Scratch Team

Here is the comment that led to this message:
“I know where you live and will skin you alive”
There is no possible way that won't result in a “if you continue to post comments like this, you will be blocked.” or a ban, both of which don't have smileys.

But isn't every alert telling you to stop doing this because you will get banned?

ScolderCreations

I feel like there are some places where this could be implemented where it is not already possible; When you get unmuted, currently it is not possible for it to show a

I believe, so this could be implemented for that.

--Optimum--

SavetheAtlantic wrote:
--Optimum-- wrote:
SavetheAtlantic wrote:
(#31)
Please be more friendly when commenting, even if you think they've done something wrong. If you see a mean thing from someone else, don't respond and instead report them to the Scratch Team and we'll sort it out. Thanks! - Scratch Team

Here is the comment that led to this message:
“I know where you live and will skin you alive”
There is no possible way that won't result in a “if you continue to post comments like this, you will be blocked.” or a ban, both of which don't have smileys.
But isn't every alert telling you to stop doing this because you will get banned?

Scratch team puts a message saying something along the lines of “if you continue posting comments like this, your account will be blocked but we don’t want that.” if the user is on thin ice above being banned. That’s what I was referring to in the OP when I said users won’t get smileys in stop-or-you’ll-get-banned warnings. I remember Za-Chary saying this happens in a past post but I can’t seem to find it; so can someone confirm?

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