Remove the fishbowl default sprite due to fishbowls being unsafe for fish

TheTrillion

k0d3rrr wrote:
TheTrillion wrote:
Why not ban the football/soccer sprite because you can get injured while playing sports? Everything is dangerous or bad if you think of it that way.
I feel like this is flawed because there's a problem for every sprite.
This is suggesting removing/replacing the fishbowl sprite because it harms fish.

You don't get my point. I was joking with banning the football/soccer sprite, because it is similar to the suggestion being proposed. Both on the surface are harmless, unlike a gun that is not for hunting for example, but when you dig deeper, both have reasons they could be considered dangerous. Same can apply with almost every sprite. I am not denying that fish bowls are harmful for fish, but so are footballs/soccer because humans can get harmed from playing sports. Nobody is taking pet advice from Scratch sprites. If people actually are, they probably should not have a pet. Also, if you really wanted to use a fish tank, you can download one off a trusted site, or use the square tool to draw one square.
–
Response to the suggestion:
Perhaps there could be both a fish tank and a fish bowl costume under a sprite titled fish enclosures?

Last edited by TheTrillion (May 15, 2022 16:58:50)

M1mikyu

musicROCKS013 wrote:
M1mikyu wrote:
it just shouldn’t be there at default.

What do you mean by “default?” You have to go in and select the sprite from the sprite library to use it. You only use it if you want a project with a fishbowl, and if it wasn't in the library people would simply draw it themself. It isn't like the scratch cat, at the creation of every scratch project. Choosing the fishbowl sprite is a deliberate thing, and even if you removed it from the sprite library, this wouldn't change the stereotypical cartoon fishbowl we use in modern media.

By default I mean, in the sprite library.

Behold, Luna's Mimikyu army!! It got killed for a moment by an evil Lord Dome, but Lord Helix brought them back!!

portalpower

RL1123 wrote:
(#13)
k0d3rrr wrote:
TheTrillion wrote:
Why not ban the football/soccer sprite because you can get injured while playing sports? Everything is dangerous or bad if you think of it that way.
Using that logic, we should ban the Neigh Pony sprite. It was based off an April Fools' Day prank.
While we're at it, why don't we ban the Ghost sprite? It could scare kids.
I feel like this is flawed because there's a problem for every sprite.
This is suggesting removing/replacing the fishbowl sprite because it harms fish.
No! Don't stop there, we need to take down every sprite on the website because it can be dangerous for Scratchers!!!

On a serious note, I think that both sides are exaggerating their argument. We definitely should be careful what's on the site and what's not. However, there's really no fine line between what is too dangerous and what should be removed or banned.

Replacing the sprite would make sense though, but the danger of the fishbowl is pretty unclear and most kids who use this don't mean harm.

If removing fish bowl costumes leads to banning cheese puffs, then why didn't the Vietnam war lead to worldwide communism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory)? This is all a slippery slope. There isn't any real reason to keep the costumes, we could just replace it with a fish tank and everything's fine. However, there isn't any real reason to ban the other things.

Edit: I should’ve read RL1123’s whole post, because it turns out they weren’t supporting the slippery slope.

Last edited by portalpower (May 15, 2022 19:05:59)

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idk what to put here.

HeliosTheSuperior

musicROCKS013 wrote:
Choosing the fishbowl sprite is a deliberate thing, and even if you removed it from the sprite library, this wouldn't change the stereotypical cartoon fishbowl we use in modern media.

what.
You're right, obviously we can't remove every depiction of fishbowls in media, but it's usually right to do any little thing that we can, even if it doesn't have that big of an impact.

You see, sensei~
I love how deep your voice can get. I've been recording and collecting it as MP3s.
I've gone absolutely crazy. From the Internet, I downloaded Audacity.
Cutting, pasting, until it was complete.
“Sensei whispering his love to me.mp3” <3

Hello, I'm Helios and I use they/xe/he >:^)
I'm an artist and a writer and I do cool stuff. :P
I'm currently working on my first-person story Teacher's Pet Chronicles! The story is about a girl who tells on one student, and then becomes thirsty to tattle on them all! But some classmates aren't easy targets, some are almost impossible to tattle on. Can she remove all of them from the classroom? Will her teacher notice her actions? Hmm…
I'm also working on a collection of poems called “I Wish I Were Them”. It's about a boy who is obsessed with the lives of others.

musicROCKS013

HeliosTheSuperior wrote:
musicROCKS013 wrote:
Choosing the fishbowl sprite is a deliberate thing, and even if you removed it from the sprite library, this wouldn't change the stereotypical cartoon fishbowl we use in modern media.
what.
You're right, obviously we can't remove every depiction of fishbowls in media, but it's usually right to do any little thing that we can, even if it doesn't have that big of an impact.

My point is, removing it on scratch won't really impact what kids think of these fishbowls. Sure, it would show that the ST cares about fish, but the main argument for this feature is so that kids don't think that fishbowls are safe, so I'm giving a rebuttal for that claim. I'm just saying if changing this “doesn't have that big of an impact,” then what is even the point of it if it hardly changes anything? I also agree with what TheTrillion said:

TheTrillion wrote:
Nobody is taking pet advice from Scratch sprites. If people actually are, they probably should not have a pet.

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Hello Scratch Team. You have been pushing a liberal political agenda on this site for far too long. This site should stay out of politics. People should be able to still post their political opinions, but there shouldn’t be any “official” political stance or Scratch. The ST is not going to change this on their own, and shoot down any attempts asking them to change. Please put this in your signature if you agree that

Scratch should be politically neutral.

The ST’s biggest defense is that they’re being welcoming, but they can be perfectly welcoming of all people and stay out of politics. Scratch is about coding, and that should be the Scratch Team’s biggest concern to maintain.

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M1mikyu

portalpower wrote:
RL1123 wrote:
(#13)
k0d3rrr wrote:
TheTrillion wrote:
Why not ban the football/soccer sprite because you can get injured while playing sports? Everything is dangerous or bad if you think of it that way.
Using that logic, we should ban the Neigh Pony sprite. It was based off an April Fools' Day prank.
While we're at it, why don't we ban the Ghost sprite? It could scare kids.
I feel like this is flawed because there's a problem for every sprite.
This is suggesting removing/replacing the fishbowl sprite because it harms fish.
No! Don't stop there, we need to take down every sprite on the website because it can be dangerous for Scratchers!!!

On a serious note, I think that both sides are exaggerating their argument. We definitely should be careful what's on the site and what's not. However, there's really no fine line between what is too dangerous and what should be removed or banned.

Replacing the sprite would make sense though, but the danger of the fishbowl is pretty unclear and most kids who use this don't mean harm.
If removing fish bowl costumes leads to banning cheese puffs, then why didn't the Vietnam war lead to worldwide communism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory)? This is all a slippery slope. There isn't any real reason to keep the costumes, we could just replace it with a fish tank and everything's fine. However, there isn't any real reason to ban the other things.

At least adding a tank sprite as well would be good. Fish tanks look so much cooler anyways, you can put so much more cool stuff in them! Decorating a fish tank seems like so much fun.

Behold, Luna's Mimikyu army!! It got killed for a moment by an evil Lord Dome, but Lord Helix brought them back!!

musicROCKS013

M1mikyu wrote:
At least adding a tank sprite as well would be good. Fish tanks look so much cooler anyways, you can put so much more cool stuff in them! Decorating a fish tank seems like so much fun.

I agree. I don't think the “fishbowl” costume should be removed, but it could coexist with some “fish tank” costumes.

Shift + Down arrow to see the rest of my signature

Hello Scratch Team. You have been pushing a liberal political agenda on this site for far too long. This site should stay out of politics. People should be able to still post their political opinions, but there shouldn’t be any “official” political stance or Scratch. The ST is not going to change this on their own, and shoot down any attempts asking them to change. Please put this in your signature if you agree that

Scratch should be politically neutral.

The ST’s biggest defense is that they’re being welcoming, but they can be perfectly welcoming of all people and stay out of politics. Scratch is about coding, and that should be the Scratch Team’s biggest concern to maintain.

This is my signature. I am allowed to adertize here.

_______________\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
Please Click —> This project is literally my life's work. <— Please Click
_______________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jenny LeClue is the best

k0d3rrr

TheTrillion wrote:
k0d3rrr wrote:
TheTrillion wrote:
Why not ban the football/soccer sprite because you can get injured while playing sports? Everything is dangerous or bad if you think of it that way.
I feel like this is flawed because there's a problem for every sprite.
This is suggesting removing/replacing the fishbowl sprite because it harms fish.
You don't get my point. I was joking with banning the football/soccer sprite, because it is similar to the suggestion being proposed. Both on the surface are harmless, unlike a gun that is not for hunting for example, but when you dig deeper, both have reasons they could be considered dangerous. Same can apply with almost every sprite. I am not denying that fish bowls are harmful for fish, but so are footballs/soccer because humans can get harmed from playing sports. Nobody is taking pet advice from Scratch sprites. If people actually are, they probably should not have a pet. Also, if you really wanted to use a fish tank, you can download one off a trusted site, or use the square tool to draw one square.

Okay…

AI isn't being added to Scratch anytime soon. If you want to, you could also read this related essay, which was not made by me.
I also found the earliest mention of Scratch 4.0 on the forums.
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define k0d3rrr
coding since [2019 v] :: #f18800 // The lowest year you can select is 2007, which was when Scratch was released.
favourite Scratch version: [3.0 v]:: #f18800
second favourite Scratch version: [1.4 v]:: #f18800

And now, some words of forum wisdom (which may or may not be controversial):
“What's the point of telling people not to post on your topic, if they are still going to post on your topic anyway?” - k0d3rrr
“If you are writing a story or creating a character roleplay for a Scratch studio, shouldn't it go in either Collaboration or Show and Tell instead of Things I'm Making and Creating?” - k0d3rrr

portalpower

musicROCKS013 wrote:
My point is, removing it on scratch won't really impact what kids think of these fishbowls. Sure, it would show that the ST cares about fish, but the main argument for this feature is so that kids don't think that fishbowls are safe, so I'm giving a rebuttal for that claim. I'm just saying if changing this “doesn't have that big of an impact,” then what is even the point of it if it hardly changes anything? I also agree with what TheTrillion said:

Small things like that can build up. It’s like how scratch team banned ALM even though it wouldn’t make that much of a difference.

thank you for reading my post and have a nice day!

shift+down to view my signature

idk what to put here.

HeliosTheSuperior

portalpower wrote:
musicROCKS013 wrote:
My point is, removing it on scratch won't really impact what kids think of these fishbowls. Sure, it would show that the ST cares about fish, but the main argument for this feature is so that kids don't think that fishbowls are safe, so I'm giving a rebuttal for that claim. I'm just saying if changing this “doesn't have that big of an impact,” then what is even the point of it if it hardly changes anything? I also agree with what TheTrillion said:
Small things like that can build up. It’s like how scratch team banned ALM even though it wouldn’t make that much of a difference.

I agree with your point, but your example????? You can't compare this situation to racism.

You see, sensei~
I love how deep your voice can get. I've been recording and collecting it as MP3s.
I've gone absolutely crazy. From the Internet, I downloaded Audacity.
Cutting, pasting, until it was complete.
“Sensei whispering his love to me.mp3” <3

Hello, I'm Helios and I use they/xe/he >:^)
I'm an artist and a writer and I do cool stuff. :P
I'm currently working on my first-person story Teacher's Pet Chronicles! The story is about a girl who tells on one student, and then becomes thirsty to tattle on them all! But some classmates aren't easy targets, some are almost impossible to tattle on. Can she remove all of them from the classroom? Will her teacher notice her actions? Hmm…
I'm also working on a collection of poems called “I Wish I Were Them”. It's about a boy who is obsessed with the lives of others.

Roblox888i

If your trying to remove every sprite then scratch would be empty of sprites, and plus its just a sprite.

So no support.

Below this little line ^ is my signature, you can edit it by going to scratch.mit.edu/discuss/settings/YOURUSERHERE/ also highlight a part and do CNTRL+SHIFT+DOWN to scroll down.

Roblox888i
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k0d3rrr

Roblox888i wrote:
If your trying to remove every sprite then scratch would be empty of sprites, and plus its just a sprite.

So no support.

I know I shouldn't state what others have said, but…

M1mikyu wrote:
I think this should be removed, as fishbowls are very dangerous and cruel to fish. Reasons include them being too small, no room for a heater and filter, the bowl shape distorts their vision, among other things.

AI isn't being added to Scratch anytime soon. If you want to, you could also read this related essay, which was not made by me.
I also found the earliest mention of Scratch 4.0 on the forums.
—
This is my signature. It is a small piece of text that appears below
every post I make. In my signature, I can include quotes, images, and even Scratch blocks.

define k0d3rrr
coding since [2019 v] :: #f18800 // The lowest year you can select is 2007, which was when Scratch was released.
favourite Scratch version: [3.0 v]:: #f18800
second favourite Scratch version: [1.4 v]:: #f18800

And now, some words of forum wisdom (which may or may not be controversial):
“What's the point of telling people not to post on your topic, if they are still going to post on your topic anyway?” - k0d3rrr
“If you are writing a story or creating a character roleplay for a Scratch studio, shouldn't it go in either Collaboration or Show and Tell instead of Things I'm Making and Creating?” - k0d3rrr

HeliosTheSuperior

Roblox888i wrote:
If your trying to remove every sprite then scratch would be empty of sprites, and plus its just a sprite.

So no support.

when did they say they wanted to remove all sprites lol

You see, sensei~
I love how deep your voice can get. I've been recording and collecting it as MP3s.
I've gone absolutely crazy. From the Internet, I downloaded Audacity.
Cutting, pasting, until it was complete.
“Sensei whispering his love to me.mp3” <3

Hello, I'm Helios and I use they/xe/he >:^)
I'm an artist and a writer and I do cool stuff. :P
I'm currently working on my first-person story Teacher's Pet Chronicles! The story is about a girl who tells on one student, and then becomes thirsty to tattle on them all! But some classmates aren't easy targets, some are almost impossible to tattle on. Can she remove all of them from the classroom? Will her teacher notice her actions? Hmm…
I'm also working on a collection of poems called “I Wish I Were Them”. It's about a boy who is obsessed with the lives of others.

musicROCKS013

HeliosTheSuperior wrote:
Roblox888i wrote:
If your trying to remove every sprite then scratch would be empty of sprites, and plus its just a sprite.

So no support.
when did they say they wanted to remove all sprites lol

People were joking about how all of the scratch sprites could be offensive, so maybe Roblox888i got the idea that this was suggesting removing all of the sprites, not just the fish bowl one.

Shift + Down arrow to see the rest of my signature

Hello Scratch Team. You have been pushing a liberal political agenda on this site for far too long. This site should stay out of politics. People should be able to still post their political opinions, but there shouldn’t be any “official” political stance or Scratch. The ST is not going to change this on their own, and shoot down any attempts asking them to change. Please put this in your signature if you agree that

Scratch should be politically neutral.

The ST’s biggest defense is that they’re being welcoming, but they can be perfectly welcoming of all people and stay out of politics. Scratch is about coding, and that should be the Scratch Team’s biggest concern to maintain.

This is my signature. I am allowed to adertize here.

_______________\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
Please Click —> This project is literally my life's work. <— Please Click
_______________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jenny LeClue is the best

M1mikyu

k0d3rrr wrote:
Roblox888i wrote:
If your trying to remove every sprite then scratch would be empty of sprites, and plus its just a sprite.

So no support.
I know I shouldn't state what others have said, but…
M1mikyu wrote:
I think this should be removed, as fishbowls are very dangerous and cruel to fish. Reasons include them being too small, no room for a heater and filter, the bowl shape distorts their vision, among other things.

There’s other reasons why too, here’s a good article https://pethelpful.com/fish-aquariums/why-fish-bowls-are-bad-for-your-fish
I’ve seen many videos of cats knocking over fishbowls and the fish falling out, because they don’t have a lid.
Fishbowls are okay temporarily as quarantine or if there’s something up with the tank, you’re setting up the tank, among other reasons. Though using a bucket might be a better option.
I’ve seen people put axolotls in a bucket as they’re working on fixing something in the tank or moving it, which is fine as it’s temporary. I know axolotls aren’t fish but it’s a good thing to mention.

Behold, Luna's Mimikyu army!! It got killed for a moment by an evil Lord Dome, but Lord Helix brought them back!!

M1mikyu

RL1123 wrote:
k0d3rrr wrote:
TheTrillion wrote:
Why not ban the football/soccer sprite because you can get injured while playing sports? Everything is dangerous or bad if you think of it that way.
Using that logic, we should ban the Neigh Pony sprite. It was based off an April Fools' Day prank.
While we're at it, why don't we ban the Ghost sprite? It could scare kids.
I feel like this is flawed because there's a problem for every sprite.
This is suggesting removing/replacing the fishbowl sprite because it harms fish.
No! Don't stop there, we need to take down every sprite on the website because it can be dangerous for Scratchers!!!

On a serious note, I think that both sides are exaggerating their argument. We definitely should be careful what's on the site and what's not. However, there's really no fine line between what is too dangerous and what should be removed or banned.

Replacing the sprite would make sense though, but the danger of the fishbowl is pretty unclear and most kids who use this don't mean harm.

Forgot to reply to this, but it’s really funny, haha!
I’m surprised there aren’t more fish sprites in the sprite library. A koi and betta fish would be cool since they’re very popular fish.

Behold, Luna's Mimikyu army!! It got killed for a moment by an evil Lord Dome, but Lord Helix brought them back!!

ScolderCreations

the p00or feesh You make some pretty good points here. This is, to some extent, promoting animal abuse, since people should probably not treat their fish this way. I support replacing the fishbowl with a more suitable representation of an environment for a fish to live in.

M1mikyu

pmuB

Behold, Luna's Mimikyu army!! It got killed for a moment by an evil Lord Dome, but Lord Helix brought them back!!

7salad3salad

Fishtanks are much safer for fish. We don't want people thinking otherwise!

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JUST BECAUSE THERES A WORKAROUND ISNT A GOOD REASON TO NOT SUPPORT!!!

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Most people don't even know that, and even if they did I really doubt they would care all that much.

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