Is this what Scratch has become?

LegoManiac04

Yes, it is true. If you limit what people can do, it will slow or stop the abuse of their power. Yes, it happens that users promote users they don't trust. Users that abuse their manager status. As a manager of many studios, such as the LGBTQ+ one, and a manager who takes their role seriously, and is responsible with their powers, this is an absolute slap in the face. It is not fair for all of us to suffer these limitations, just because many users make the mistake of promoting people they don't trust.
For so long, Scratch has been more than a coding website. It has been a place where we can connect with others. And with Scratch's amazing Community Guidelines, and hard working moderators, Scratch has been one of the few safe-spaces for many. A great number of users come together in studios. They're easy to invite people too, they're easy to have fun in. But that fun is practically gone. Now being a manager is useless. You can invite, promote, and remove users. That's it. You can't make edits to descriptions, titles, or thumbnails.
I understand that you want to shift the focus of Scratch to being just a coding site, but understand that it is so much more for so many people. This studio update is hurting studios. It is hurting entire communities here on Scratch. Taking away what we have is not fair, and is not what we want. I understand that these decisions may have been made from a moderation standpoint, but now it's time to weigh your options. It's clear that no one is happy about this.
The comment limit has effectively killed Roleplay studios. Maybe you wanted that. But with the limitations managers have, you've also killed every single studio that has an inactive owner. We, the managers, can't do anything about that. And when you're a part of an extremely large and thriving studio, such as the LGBTQ+ studio, we're not going to pack up our bags and make a new studio.
You say you appreciate the community's feedback, but I'm not feeling very appreciated. Even before this update rolled out, users were sharing their opinions, as well as their constructive feedback on the reply and manager limit. Did you listen? No. Should I think you will listen now? At this point, I don't think so. So now I ask, what's more important to you, dear Scratch Team? The ease of moderating this site, as you no longer have to worry about managers abusing their powers, and having to moderate chat studios? Or, to encourage a happy and thriving community of diversity, where users can have fun and have different, functional, roles in studios?

This is more than us “having a hard time adjusting,” or “ not wanting to get used to change,” no. We can get used to the new design, with just some fixes, we can, but these restrictions? No. This is controversial for a reason. Listen to us. Listen to feedback we give. Listen to feedback we have been giving since the new studios first surfaced.
Don't say that Scratch is harder to moderate because of increased site traffic. That makes this our fault. It's not. We shouldn't be the one's suffering just because some people misuse Scratch. I've always been on your side, especially with updates, but this, this I cannot stand for. You ask for the community's feedback, and yet we're almost never listened to. I'd like that to change, please.

Last edited by LegoManiac04 (July 6, 2021 23:14:17)

dertermenter

I don't understand why they continued to make limits when it was obvious we did not like limits, and then completely ignore the criticism and implement it. And with locking the github issue immediately so we couldn't criticize it!

And scratch isn't just a coding website, it is also should be a community website that encourages creativity etc.

A post said that the ST is letting no one take risks and I agree with that. Some studios will get raided. But that is their fault, the pop up of what managers can do is enough. They look at 1 side of the story obviously, as no one seems to like the restricting managers change despite it said in the FAQ that people wanted it.

The “create a new studio” is not a good argument, studios like this LGBTQ studio and the forum helpers, its special as it's been around for so long and has already gained a massive following.

Oh, and the site doesn't have to be perfect with running smoothly! This isn't scratchers priorities!

ScolderCreations

Personally, I think the ST should've listen to the community more. Their ideas for the new studio page crashed and burned.

LegoManiac04

dertermenter wrote:
A post said that the ST is letting no one take risks and I agree with that. Some studios will get raided. But that is their fault, the pop up of what managers can do is enough.

Exactly. You learn by making mistakes, but apparently that's not okay anymore.

clove-

yep, this site started as a coding site (and it still is one) but it's become so much more than that. people who have a lot of trouble making and keeping friends in real life have found a home on scratch. the community on this website is probably the reason why a lot of people are still alive after 16 months of a pandemic. scratch team, we get that you want it to be easier for you to do your job. to manage us. but it's making it harder for people to live. think about that for a moment.

LegoManiac04

clove- wrote:
the community on this website is probably the reason why a lot of people are still alive after 16 months of a pandemic. scratch team, we get that you want it to be easier for you to do your job. to manage us. but it's making it harder for people to live. think about that for a moment.

MrFluffyPenguins

Has there ever really been a time where they actually really listened to the community's feedback?

I mean, lets think about this:

When Scratch 3.0 came out, what was added that was new that people actually asked for?

When this update came out, what was added that people actually wanted?

Literally nothing.

Last edited by MrFluffyPenguins (July 6, 2021 17:20:14)

Milkysplash

clove- wrote:
yep, this site started as a coding site (and it still is one) but it's become so much more than that. people who have a lot of trouble making and keeping friends in real life have found a home on scratch. the community on this website is probably the reason why a lot of people are still alive after 16 months of a pandemic. scratch team, we get that you want it to be easier for you to do your job. to manage us. but it's making it harder for people to live. think about that for a moment.

agreed.

paintdneon

I'm manager of a fairly popular studio about a fandom. Before 3.0, the fact that the original owner of the studio deleted their account was just an afterthought or a funny story. Now it's not at all. We often edited the description to change the rules or discuss things, but now everything is so much more complicated for us.
The original creator deleted their account. Deleted it. Not abandon it, which could give us a sliver of a chance. But now that the creator of our studio is an account that gives us a 404 error, how are we supposed to do the same things we once could do freely as long as we had manager status?
I can't deny that this is useful for some studios. Keyword “some”. Maybe I could allow it to be there if you could toggle if managers could do the same things the creator did. But even that wouldn't be useful for us if only the creator could change that option.
I remember I used to defend the 3.0 update, back when I thought that the only issue people had with it was the looks. I told people that it looks great. I now realize it's so much more than just looks. It's an actual problem with the way the Scratch Team interacts with our community.

LegoManiac04

According to the Q&A post, we had been asking for restricted permissions for managers. No we haven't..? We've been asking for the ability to either change what users can and can't do, or to have a different status that operates like managers do now, not completely ruin the point of having managers-

dertermenter

LegoManiac04 wrote:
According to the Q&A post, we had been asking for restricted permissions for managers. No we haven't..? We've been asking for the ability to either change what users can and can't do, or to have a different status that operates like managers do now, not completely ruin the point of having managers-

Not trying to advertise but I made a post about that: https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/526681/

PolyBit

Yes.

Maximouse

LegoManiac04 wrote:
According to the Q&A post, we had been asking for restricted permissions for managers. No we haven't..? We've been asking for the ability to either change what users can and can't do, or to have a different status that operates like managers do now, not completely ruin the point of having managers-

This is because of how badly the Suggestions forum works. Only moderators see the suggestions and probably only give a vague summary to the other ST members.

The announcement and Q&A post contain multiple lies, and they deleted at least one negative response. This isn't a good way to make people like the update.

Milkysplash

Maximouse wrote:
LegoManiac04 wrote:
According to the Q&A post, we had been asking for restricted permissions for managers. No we haven't..? We've been asking for the ability to either change what users can and can't do, or to have a different status that operates like managers do now, not completely ruin the point of having managers-
This is because of how badly the Suggestions forum works. Only moderators see the suggestions and probably only give a vague summary to the other ST members.

The announcement and Q&A post contain multiple lies, and they deleted at least one negative response. This isn't a good way to make people like the update.

This is basically turning into an online dystopia, to summon it up.

MrFluffyPenguins

Maximouse wrote:
The announcement and Q&A post contain multiple lies, and they deleted at least one negative response. This isn't a good way to make people like the update.

10/10 epic update

Last edited by MrFluffyPenguins (July 6, 2021 17:47:02)

LegoManiac04

Mr_PenguinAlex wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
The announcement and Q&A post contain multiple lies, and they deleted at least one negative response. This isn't a good way to make people like the update.
I was wondering where one of my posts went.

If any of you have read George Orwell's 1984, this will all sound familiar. The ST has been taking down posts and projects that are criticising this update- And they're not even negative/disrespectful/particularly unconstructive. They've twisted our words in the Q&A, and they have effectively broken the “Be Honest” Guideline by glorifying this update. If you want feedback, maybe don't remove it..?

Milkysplash

LegoManiac04 wrote:
Mr_PenguinAlex wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
The announcement and Q&A post contain multiple lies, and they deleted at least one negative response. This isn't a good way to make people like the update.
I was wondering where one of my posts went.
If any of you have read George Orwell's 1984, this will all sound familiar. The ST has been taking down posts and projects that are criticising this update- And they're not even negative/disrespectful/particularly unconstructive. They've twisted our words in the Q&A, and they have effectively broken the “Be Honest” Guideline by glorifying this update. If you want feedback, maybe don't remove it..?

Can we just say that this is turning into an online dystopia?

dhuls

Milkysplash wrote:
LegoManiac04 wrote:
Mr_PenguinAlex wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
The announcement and Q&A post contain multiple lies, and they deleted at least one negative response. This isn't a good way to make people like the update.
I was wondering where one of my posts went.
If any of you have read George Orwell's 1984, this will all sound familiar. The ST has been taking down posts and projects that are criticising this update- And they're not even negative/disrespectful/particularly unconstructive. They've twisted our words in the Q&A, and they have effectively broken the “Be Honest” Guideline by glorifying this update. If you want feedback, maybe don't remove it..?
Can we just say that this is turning into an online dystopia?

No, because if you do you will get permabanned.

DaBoi001

Excuse me for my simple response, but, more or less, yes. Scratch is now quite different from how it was when I joined this community. I feel that is obvious, but still.

-Kryptonite-

Honestly, I feel like people are overreacting, such as this post, however, I didn't read the whole OP (too long, could you use TL;DR?) The update was g r e a t, a few problems like managers not being able to edit stuff, but it was for a good reason. Studio raiding and manager chat.

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