what was ACTUALLY the oldest project ever ( that is still visible in some way)

Austinato

10goto10 wrote:
This is why it’s so important to carefully define the terms of a contest or acceptance test or whatever.

I’ve found a project with a published date of October 21, 2005 that is in the Scratch project repository (i.e. it has an “id”).

I get that people who say “weekend” is the oldest have decided that only the information in the Scratch website repository is definitive but then what do you do with a published date of October 21, 2005?

(I am Not picking on anyone. This is Just a thought exercise.)

I'm sure they're aware that 104 isn't the oldest Scratch project ever. It's just the oldest project that's still viewable on the site, and therefore the easiest to call the oldest.

Any older projects are pretty much lost and only partially viewable (i.e. only screenshots and page archives.)

Maybe we can make a list just to keep things organized?

104 (March 5, 2007) is the oldest viewable project. It was re-shared on September 2, 2015.
105 (March 5, 2007) is the oldest untouched viewable project.

This is obviously incomplete; let's add to it!

Last edited by Austinato (May 9, 2021 21:07:00)

10goto10

Austinato wrote:
…
I'm sure they're aware that 104 isn't the oldest Scratch project ever. It's just the oldest project that's still viewable on the site, and therefore the easiest to call the oldest….

This is what I was trying to challenge. What dates you are seeing in the Scratch online database is not necessarily the truth. Please be very careful in saying that unless something is quick and easy and a popular belief then it can be dismissed.

10goto10 wrote:
I’ve found a project with a published date of October 21, 2005 that is in the Scratch project repository (i.e. it has an “id”).

What I found is not a fragment or a screen shot. It’s a complete program that is still in the Scratch project repository and it has a published date that goes back to at least October 21, 2005.

So, again, if the author of this golf contest just wanted people to limit their looking around to the current Scratch website then that’s fine. that can be fun to do. But there is more to it.

fdreerf

I'm skeptical 10goto10's project was the first-ever made, but it is possibly the first-ever shared on the Scratch website. On October 21st, 2005, nrusk or natalie shared three project ideas in the Share your Projects section: Animate your name, Play with your face, and Make a dance, at 2:06 PM, 3:15 PM, and 9:48 PM respectively. The following morning they posted Create a chase game at 8:02 PM. Unless all of the projects were made within the same day, I think they were all uploaded at the same time. Downloading the few that I could, I can't seem to find any creation date through Properties.

han614698

Austinato (paraphrased) wrote:
Maybe we can make a list just to keep things organized?
by andresmh
104 (March 5, 2007) is the oldest viewable project. It was re-shared on September 2, 2015.
105 (March 5, 2007) is the oldest untouched viewable project.

106 (March 5, 2007) Untouched, but is it older than 105?
by xAlu
107 (March 5, 2007) The first project not made by the ST.
108 (Unviewable on Scratch) On turbowarp.
by thekid
109 (March 5, 2007) Arguably the best pre 200 project.
This is obviously incomplete; let's add to it!

Austinato

10goto10 wrote:
This is what I was trying to challenge. What dates you are seeing in the Scratch online database is not necessarily the truth. Please be very careful in saying that unless something is quick and easy and a popular belief then it can be dismissed.

Yeah, I get what you're saying and I agree. There's certainly older projects than 104 and 105.

10goto10 wrote:
What I found is not a fragment or a screen shot. It’s a complete program that is still in the Scratch project repository and it has a published date that goes back to at least October 21, 2005.

So, again, if the author of this golf contest just wanted people to limit their looking around to the current Scratch website then that’s fine. that can be fun to do. But there is more to it.

Oops, my bad, you're right about the project. It seems to have been created much earlier than 104 and 105 but has a much later upload date.

Austinato

List of oldest known Scratch projects
Early Scratch (2004)
More info: Development of Scratch 1.0, fdreerf's post, ScratchArchive.
Obviously the very, very first Scratch projects were made during the development process and are lost, but a few projects have been discovered through different media:

Valentine's Day project (c. Feb. 14, 2004) is available through the 14Feb04 build.
Racing game (c. Feb. 2004) is a project that has been seen in a research paper from the same time period.
Fish Chomp (2004 mention) (c. mid-2004) is a project that would later pop up in 2005. A screenshot of the project can be found on the Scratch Wiki.

Blog posts (2005)
More info: fdreerf's post.
A couple of blog posts from October 21-22, 2005, are of interest because they contain screenshots and downloads of early Scratch projects. The actual creation dates for these projects are unknown, so creation dates are approximated based on the dates the posts were published.

Animate your name (Oct. 21, 2005, 2:06PM)
Contains screenshots of projects titled “Name Letter Drop” and “Name Surprise.” “Natalie Ducks” was also featured, which was later shared on the site with ID 438 (for more information, view the entry for this project below.)

Play with your face (Oct. 21, 2005, 3:15PM)
Contains screenshots of projects titled “Play with Hamster” and “Play with Your Face.” These projects have not been found.

Make a dance (Oct. 21, 2005, 9:48PM)
Contains downloads for projects titled “DanceDemo,” “NewBackspinBeats,” “CleopatraDance,” and “DanceTurntable.”

Create a chase game (Oct. 22, 2005, 8:02AM)
Contains downloads for projects titled “CatchChase” and “FishChomp.” FishChomp, a game from “mid-2004” (refer to the first section above), has since been shared on the site (link pending.)

Snowboard video clip (Jan. 31, 2006, 8:42PM)
This project from the user gevue (Keith B.?) may be the oldest one not shared by a ST member.

Site projects (2007-)
These projects, for the large part, are still viewable on the site with semi-accurate share dates. They're easier to access and thus are more well-known and easy to refer to.

“Weekend” (104) (Mar. 5, 2007) is the most well-known project of this group thanks to the fact that projects with IDs 1-103 are irrelevant to the search since they have been overwritten and aren't visible on the site by normal means. It was originally shared on March 5, 2007, but was reshared in 2015.
“Sandwhich” (105) (Mar. 5, 2007) is also known for being the project with the oldest share date that, unlike “Weekend,” was untouched.
108 (c. Mar. 5, 2007) is possibly the oldest project that was not created by a ST member. It is unshared but still viewable on sites such as Turbowarp.
“Natalie Ducks” (from Oct. 2005, shared c. Mar. 7-15, 2007, re-shared Mar. 14, 2007) was originally created as late as October 2005 but was later shared on the site twice during site changes in March 2007.

Projects with ID 1-103
By logic projects with ID less than 104 would be older than the project with ID 104, but they have been overwritten over the course of years by the ST.

ID 1 (~2018-2019?) was probably overwritten by a ST member during the Scratch 3.0 development process. As for proof that it was overwritten around this period, the project uses a block found in Scratch 3.0.

The answer
There's multiple, depending on how technical you want to get and what definition satisfies you. (In order from recent to oldest):

“Sandwhich” by andresmh (Mar. 5, 2007) is easily accessible and has been just about untouched since its release date.
“Weekend” by andresmh (Mar. 5, 2007) was first shared in 2007 but re-shared in 2015, altering its “share date” but it's still technically March 2007.
“Natalie Ducks” by natalie (c. Oct. 2005) first appeared on Scratch media in October 2005, but was first uploaded to the sort-of current site in March 2007 and again a few days later.
“Fish Chomp” (c. mid-2004) first appeared on Scratch media in October 2005, but there's a screenshot of the project in an editor from “mid-2004.” It's probably on the site, but with a different ID and certainly different share date.
Racing game or 2004 Valentine's Day project (c. Feb. 2004) are the oldest documented Scratch projects, discovered through an editor version archive and a research paper, respectively. The racing game has not been found, but the Valentine's Day project is accessible by downloading the February 14, 2004 build of the Scratch editor.

Contributors to this post
Austinato, han614698, fdreerf

Throwing the following in, very much a work in progress:
Inquiry into Project 1
Project 1 is currently occupied by a project that was made by wheelsonfire, a ST member, during the Scratch 3.0 development process. We are looking into what previously occupied this project ID space. This is what we have found:

2007 - ?: “Lil Devil and Angel” by evelyn (project unavailable on site) (kudos to CatsUnited)
? - ?: Possibly another project
? - 2018: “Trouble” by ThePancakeMan (viewable) (kudos to Za-Chary*)
Since 2018: wheelsonfire* project (unshared) (kudos to Jeffalo) (project also uses Scratch 3.0 blocks)

Last edited by Austinato (May 27, 2021 15:47:16)

fdreerf

Austinato wrote:
“Natalie Ducks” (from Oct. 2005, shared Mar. 14, 2007) is from as late as October 2005 but was shared on the site much later.

It wasn't shared for the first time on Scratch on March 14th, 2007. Sometime between March 7th and March 15th, the site had completely changed, and older projects had to be reshared through the new site.

This wasn't much of a big deal, since that new website was the first where you could share projects to the public, and prior to that only demos existed.

Last edited by fdreerf (May 10, 2021 02:05:42)

fdreerf

The oldest project not shared by a Scratch Team member was possibly Snowboard Video Clip from January 31st, 2006, by gevue. I can't find any sort of connection between the username gevue and a Scratch Team member, and the account is a 404 on Scratch. Keith B is listed by the Wiki as an acknowledgment, so they have a definite connection to the ST.

Gevue also thanks the ST in the third person, implying that they are not part of it. But, it's unclear.

Last edited by fdreerf (May 10, 2021 02:13:38)

Austinato

^
Interesting stuff! I added parts of it to the reference post.

I believe someone already brought this up (and it may have been the first page some visited) but there's a Wiki page on early Scratch development that has some screenshots of old projects, including Fish Chomp, which I didn't know was (supposedly) from mid-2004 instead of 2005.

ChristianSc6d9

finally someone realizez

ChristianSc6d9

<img src="https://en.scratch-wiki.info/w/images/thumb/Presentation_Mode_2005-01.png/800px-Presentation_Mode_2005-01.png“ alt=”File

resentation Mode 2005-01.png"/>

CST1229

ChristianSc6d9 wrote:
<img src="https://en.scratch-wiki.info/w/images/thumb/Presentation_Mode_2005-01.png/800px-Presentation_Mode_2005-01.png“ alt=”Fileresentation Mode 2005-01.png"/>

The forums use BBCode, not HTML.

ChristianSc6d9

just pretend it is an image

han614698

Here's the image, no one else wants to do it.

fdreerf

If you download a copy of Scratch 0.1 for yourself, namely here, you'll probably get the 14Feb04 build. The default project is a very simple Valentine's Day project, a heart comes from the corner, grows big, and says some text. But it may just be the oldest executable Scratch project.

The screenshot of the racing game comes from a paper by the founding Scratch Team members in February of 2004. However, there is no date on when that screenshot was taken, only a vague “current version”, which is probably the exact same build. Hence, one might conclude that the car racing project is around the same age as, maybe even younger than, the Valentine's Day project.

It is safe to say that the paper trail is running cold. Scratch was started in 2002 or 2003, and I cannot find any screenshots or projects from either year. Either the Valentine's Day project or the Racing Game project is the oldest project with any evidence of its existence.

Last edited by fdreerf (May 23, 2021 12:47:00)

GMSN21

i found play with your face but i forgot the id

HedwigsHat

i found one: https://turbowarp.org/1/ its not visible on scratch but give it a try

ChristianSc6d9

HedwigsHat wrote:
i found one: https://turbowarp.org/1/ its not visible on scratch but give it a try

Austinato

HedwigsHat wrote:
i found one: https://turbowarp.org/1/ its not visible on scratch but give it a try

I get why you'd say this is older than project 104 (“Weekend”) but it's no longer, unfortunately:

Austinato wrote:
ID 1 (~2018-2019?) was probably overwritten by a ST member during the Scratch 3.0 development process. As for proof that it was overwritten around this period, the project uses a block found in Scratch 3.0.

ChristianSc6d9

Austinato wrote:
HedwigsHat wrote:
i found one: https://turbowarp.org/1/ its not visible on scratch but give it a try
I get why you'd say this is older than project 104 (“Weekend”) but it's no longer, unfortunately:
Austinato wrote:
ID 1 (~2018-2019?) was probably overwritten by a ST member during the Scratch 3.0 development process. As for proof that it was overwritten around this period, the project uses a block found in Scratch 3.0.

oh, but atleast we still know what project 1 is and the lowest id id on the website is.

thank you

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