inoking wrote:

The ST can not know there was such a comment, because there is no notification and they can bypass the filter easily by selecting words.

I'm pretty sure ST can moderate the entire website, therefore seeing:

• when a user posted a comment

• what they posted

• who replied

• when someone reports the comment

• who reported the comment

• when someone deleted the comment

• who deleted the comment

Of course, this is just an assumption, but I'm 99% positive it's true. We need ST's word to confirm this, and I'm no tech genius, but I'm pretty sure that ST has already taken that argument into account. They own Scratch. They have access to the entire website. We already know that Scratch Team members can edit comments, profile “About Me”s, studio descriptions and more. I'm sure they can tell if someone deleted a comment; even if they aren't notified of it, I'm sure they can check a database of some sort.

But then again, when these precautions would be necessary is another question entirely. Only few dramas would be serious enough for this, and we already have Contact Us, which is more reliable than reports. The entire report system is already flawed, what with mass reporting (and “I don't like this project” or “this project is too hard” being available reasons to report a project! ) and personally I think it needs an entire overhaul, but that's a lot of work and I definitely do not see a reason for deleting comments to be removed.

As for the filter, well, it's a filter. There are always going to be issues. And I'm positive that if we scrapped the “delete” button for comments, thousands more reports would come piling in. And when there are more reports, more of the action being taken will be done by bots. By filters. The filters can be tricked into thinking that

inoking wrote:

My point of view is the priority of the issues.
Counterarguments don't discuss the point.

They most certainly do. That is literally how a debate works; someone makes a statement, and both sides give their views and reasons as to why they agree with or don't agree with that statement. It's like making a list of pros and cons. If there are more pros, it's probably a good idea. If there are more cons, it's probably not. And then there is also the severity of the pros and cons. If there are three pros and two cons, but the cons are highly hazardous, then it's probably a bad idea. It's like a weighing scale.

Anyway, I'm getting off-track.

Let's make a list of pros and cons that you and everyone else has mentioned so far (note: I will not be updating this; this is just to prove a point!)


PROS

• can make scratch safer

(restricts private messaging, ensures mean comments are reported)

• “freedom of speech”

(inoking says that it can hurt a scratcher's feelings if their comment is deleted)


CONS

• gives lots more work for ST

(reporting people saying “f4f” , reporting old embarrassing comments the person doesn't want to see, people reporting innocent comments just because they don't want them there)

• unnecessary

• “freedom of speech”

(people should be able to manage their profile however they want)

• makes it harder to see which reports are genuine

You conclude if this suggestion is worth it.

inoking wrote:

-snip-

Your opinion:
A comment that follows the CG shouldn't be taken down.
Response:
A user has the right to control EVERYTHING on their profile; like comments, personal info, abusive words, mass reports, advertisements, f4f, links, and unnecesary comments. All those types of comments can't just be reported, the Scratch Team can't handle this much reports.

Your opinion:
Since deleting comments can lead to private messaging, deleting comments could be a safety issue.
Response:
There's no way this can lead to private messaging, the comments are shared to EVERYONE. Tell me if I misunderstood your opinion.

Your opinion:
If a user doesn't want to make their profile “dirty”, they can turn off comment posting.
Response:
It's not that simple, what if a user doesn't want to make their profile “dirty” but they also want people to comment? See? It's too much of a complex situation to handle.


Opposite opinion:
A user needs some control over their profile…
Response:
I agree, take a look at my first response.

Opposite opinion:
It is useful in some cases
Response:
I agree.


Opposite opinion:
#16

100% no support. It's their profile and they should be able to do anything with it. Deleting comments will never lead to private messaging.

Just one point.

Scratchperson1000000 wrote:

There's no way this can lead to private messaging, the comments are shared to EVERYONE. Tell me if I misunderstood your opinion.

It is easy e.g. by adjusting the timing.

Thank you for the list in #21, it is worth being marked.

Foxy112345 wrote:

I'm pretty sure ST can moderate the entire website, …

You have some misunderstandings.
The ST can inquire everything if they want to do.
However, the point is there is no trigger to do it except for they check all manually.

Foxy112345 wrote:

The entire report system is already flawed, what with mass reporting (and “I don't like this project” or “this project is too hard” being available reasons to report a project! ) …

Another misunderstanding.
Some of the reasons, “I don't like this project”, … are dummy.
If you select it, you will be led to an explanation.

Foxy112345 wrote:

And I'm positive that if we scrapped the “delete” button for comments, thousands more reports would come piling in.

The 2nd suggestion is just for this.
Apart from the 1st suggestion, misusage should be suppressed.

i dont think the delete button should be removed, i think the report button should stand out more than the delete button, i agree with everything else though

inoking wrote:

Just one point.

Scratchperson1000000 wrote:

There's no way this can lead to private messaging, the comments are shared to EVERYONE. Tell me if I misunderstood your opinion.

It is easy e.g. by adjusting the timing.

Well, if you're talking about WayBack Machine then yes.
If you're talking about changing the time on your computer your browser's gonna be like “Ah your time & date is set way back pls change to 2021 thx”

#27:
Neither is what I'm talking about.
I avoid mentioning the specific procedure.

inoking wrote:

Even moderators of the Scratch Team, they never use their privilege based on their own feeling.

They never use their higher ability, most likely, but I am almost certain that Scratch Team members have deleted comments that they feel uncomfortable with and not reported users.

For example, spoiling a project is not technically against the community guidelines, but someone may want to delete such type of comment so as to make sure the project is not ruined for other users.

Furthermore, this is a list of suggestions and lists of suggestions are not allowed. Please make a separate topic for each of your ideas.

Foxy112345 wrote:

(and “I don't like this project” or “this project is too hard” being available reasons to report a project! )

Actually, when you select those options I'm pretty sure it sends you an alert.
Try it!

1.

pavcato wrote:

inoking wrote:

Although you chose receive others' comment, you want do delete them.
I feel it is inconsistent.

I show another reason.
Deleting comments enables users to do private messaging easily.
(e.g. inappropriate external link, external account, …)
This is a safety issue.

The opinion that you want to delete comments freely is a matter of taste.
My opinion is an issue of others' care and safety.
Therefore, the former doesn't take precedence over latter.

The ability to delete comments doesn't mean you can just bypass the filter. Also, the ST can view deleted comments, so it's not like they can't get in trouble.

EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY! EXACTLY..
2.

inoking wrote:

The reason why it is because some users tend to delete “disliked” comments (disagreement, advice on misusing of community, etc.).

What's wrong with that???
3. -

inoking wrote:

The comments that follow the guidelines should not be deleted.

WHY??

PUNNAMOODU wrote:

Sorry, no support. This can come in handy at times.

• I allow advertisements on my profile but I delete the comments after I check out a project. I don't want to encourage more people to advertise there. I also don't want to report any of the comments either!
  
• Some people also want their profiles to look clean and hence create “chat studios” after deleting existing comments on their profile. Although I dislike this, some people really like that. Reporting every comment with the reason “I want to make my profile look clean” would just create more problems for the Scratch Team even if a warning is shown.
  
• Sometimes, when people take a break from scratch, they leave a comment on their profile explaining stuff. When they come back, they normally delete the comment to avoid confusion!
  
• A user should have some control over their profile! Removing this would just destroy that.
  
  

Hope my criticism here was constructive

Totally..

Queer_Royalty wrote:

They never use their higher ability, most likely, but I am almost certain that Scratch Team members have deleted comments that they feel uncomfortable with and not reported users.

For example, spoiling a project is not technically against the community guidelines, but someone may want to delete such type of comment so as to make sure the project is not ruined for other users.

Of course, reporting is not the only one trigger.
If an ST member would deleted comments that they feel uncomfortable privately, it would be a misusage of their privilege.

Your example, “spoiling a project” is actually against the community guidelines:

try to trick the community.

or Terms of Use 3.5-1:

Posting content deliberately designed to crash the Scratch website or editor;

Queer_Royalty wrote:

Furthermore, this is a list of suggestions and lists of suggestions are not allowed. Please make a separate topic for each of your ideas.

My ideas are that two make up one.

inoking wrote:

Foxy112345 wrote:

I'm pretty sure ST can moderate the entire website, …

You have some misunderstandings.
The ST can inquire everything if they want to do.
However, the point is there is no trigger to do it except for they check all manually.

That's exactly what I said, lmao.

inoking wrote:

Foxy112345 wrote:

The entire report system is already flawed, what with mass reporting (and “I don't like this project” or “this project is too hard” being available reasons to report a project! ) …

Another misunderstanding.
Some of the reasons, “I don't like this project”, … are dummy.
If you select it, you will be led to an explanation.

Again, wrong. I have tried them. (On my own projects though, with an alt, and I didn't press submit.)

inoking wrote:

Foxy112345 wrote:

And I'm positive that if we scrapped the “delete” button for comments, thousands more reports would come piling in.

The 2nd suggestion is just for this.
Apart from the 1st suggestion, misusage should be suppressed.

Again, the 2nd suggestion would cause way too much work for ST. I really don't think this suggestion is worth it for the little benefit it would give.

inoking wrote:

Your example, “spoiling a project” is actually against the community guidelines:

try to trick the community.

or Terms of Use 3.5-1:

Posting content deliberately designed to crash the Scratch website or editor;

I think they were referring to spoilers; for example, spoiling a book by telling someone how it ends, not like spoiling the book by spilling your drink on it.

inoking wrote:

My opinion:
- The comments that follow the guidelines should not be deleted.
- Since deleting comments enables users to do private messaging easily, this is a safety issue.
- If users don't want to make your profile “dirty”, they can turn off comment posting.

For deleting comments to clean up the profile, a big reason people want a clean comments section is to make using the comments section easier. For example, you might delete all old, resolved conversations so that it is easier to pick out the newer, ongoing ones. Just because you like it clean doesn't mean you want to make it hard for people to contact you.

There are situations where a comment doesn't break the community guidelines but you have a good reason to delete it. For example, say someone rickrolls you on April Fools day. Or, maybe a friend accidentally posts a spoiler to something you are working on and you don't want your followers to see it. Or maybe there was an awkward conversation with someone you don't want to be reminded about every time you scroll down enough.

Sure, maybe some of these are reportable. But are they really worth sending an extra report to the Scratch Team? In most cases, no. The Scratch Team isn't there to remove borderline unwanted content, such a joke posted by a friend, the spoiler posted by mistake, or the conversation that makes you cringe.

Foxy112345 wrote:

That's exactly what I said, lmao.

Again, wrong. I have tried them. (On my own projects though, with an alt, and I didn't press submit.)

I can not understand what you mean.
My misreading?

I strongly disagree with your first point but strongly agree with your 2nd point

If the ability to delete comments on your profile was removed, someone could, let's say, make you uncomfortable. You could report the comment(s), but then nothing would happen because it follows the community guidelines. And don't even think about saying “Well then just use Contact Us lmao”, because 95% of users don't even know how to use Contact Us properly, and 4% do know how but don't have the resources to do so.

However, your second idea I strongly support, I even made a topic about this considering the “Report Profile” feature.

Foxy112345 wrote:

I think they were referring to spoilers; for example, spoiling a book by telling someone how it ends, not like spoiling the book by spilling your drink on it.

Its judgement may change by person.
It may still be the following case.

try to trick the community.

inoking wrote:

Foxy112345 wrote:

I think they were referring to spoilers; for example, spoiling a book by telling someone how it ends, not like spoiling the book by spilling your drink on it.

Its judgement may change by person.
It may still be the following case.

try to trick the community.

Posting spoilers isn't trying to trick the community. I mean, yes, it's annoying when it happens, but I highly doubt that they are tricking anyone.

Yellowsheep43 wrote:

If the ability to delete comments on your profile was removed, someone could, let's say, make you uncomfortable. You could report the comment(s), but then nothing would happen because it follows the community guidelines.

See my #3.
Even “Your project is so good!” may be “uncomfortable” for some people.
Should that comment be deleted? How does the person left the comment feel?

If a user does report it, the comment is deleted. Then the user takes responsible for his/her own report.
Therefore, “nothing would happen” is wrong.

The purpose of my suggestion is not to make them report the comments which follow the guidelines, but to make them stop deleting/reporting.

Yellowsheep43 wrote:

However, your second idea I strongly support, I even made a topic about this considering the “Report Profile” feature.

As far as I saw at first glance,
the topic is almost the same as my 2nd suggestion except for annotation of “The content of the report will be checked and abuse will be subject to caution”.
I support your idea.