Superdoggy wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

gee whiz dude, can you stop pretending and start actually debating for once? no one will take you seriously if you add smilies to your post and call off your opponent's arguments as inferior to yours. for once, just debate from an objective standpoint.

I'd actually post more seriously if you didn't start pointing out so-called “logical fallacies” in other peoples' posts, or if others would stop rambling on about how all of the arguments are “nonsense” or “straw men”. This includes the Scratch Team.
Seriously, just post your opinion on the issue and not on how my or others' arguments have a bunch of flaws. If all you want to do is shoot down others' arguments, then I'm not even going to post anything other than sarcastic put-downs of your posts. xP

It's fine to debate, but don't just say “your argument has a logical fallacy”, dismiss the argument, and treat that as 100% truth. Because in the end, the post with the logical fallacy is the one linking to some random site that really has no merit.

So really, please just debate from an objective standpoint.

Oh wait, oops, there might have been some sarcasm there. xD no offense, just making a (slightly pointed) joke to get my point across.

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

Zro716 wrote:

Superdoggy wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

gee whiz dude, can you stop pretending and start actually debating for once? no one will take you seriously if you add smilies to your post and call off your opponent's arguments as inferior to yours. for once, just debate from an objective standpoint.

I'd actually post more seriously if you didn't start pointing out so-called “logical fallacies” in other peoples' posts, or if others would stop rambling on about how all of the arguments are “nonsense” or “straw men”. This includes the Scratch Team.
Seriously, just post your opinion on the issue and not on how my or others' arguments have a bunch of flaws. If all you want to do is shoot down others' arguments, then I'm not even going to post anything other than sarcastic put-downs of your posts. xP

It's fine to debate, but don't just say “your argument has a logical fallacy”, dismiss the argument, and treat that as 100% truth. Because in the end, the post with the logical fallacy is the one linking to some random site that really has no merit.

So really, please just debate from an objective standpoint.

Oh wait, oops, there might have been some sarcasm there. xD no offense, just making a (slightly pointed) joke to get my point across.

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

Perhaps you should see my post on the first page of the forum if you haven't already. That's just one of my arguments, and it certainly doesn't qualify into your first paragraph. I've also made other big posts and they are NOT weak. Once you've read through the entire forum post by post and stop skipping over my real arguments, then please edit your post above, for it is incorrect.

Thanks!

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

Mehhhhh. This is getting annoying. I'm not even going to reply to that. Although if I were, I'd say “Even if I were to post the most convincing argument on the whole site, you'd probably be able to find a reason why I would be ‘wrong’. At some point you have to drop the ‘book of logical fallacies’, because it really is annoying and if they're that obvious, then you don't even have to point them out.”

Although, now that I said that, I think that I probably missed the point of your comment with my first reply. If I were to look back onto my first paragraph, I could probably find a few so-called “logical fallacies” with it. But even if I did point out that it's only hypothetical, not at all sarcastic, or completely off topic, that doesn't even add to the conversation. Because it is so obvious, it shouldn't really matter if I point that out or not.

However, now that I said that, I just noticed that I wrote that paragraph backward and it really doesn't matter much, it's invalid. There are literally so many problems with it that it should be ignored completely. Although this paragraph should be ignored completely too, because I used the word “literally” wrong, so that invalidates the whole paragraph here. Although that is a Straw Man, you don't have to use words right to see how confusing things get and why blue and not pink?

Seriously, it's not like I'm being sarcastic. I would never do that. It pains me to see all of my arguments discredited because I used a few smilies or because I didn't phrase things right. In fact, I didn't use any smilies in this post at all! I would never type anything like “” or anything of the like. Besides, if I did, wouldn't that point out a logical fallacy in this sarcastic paragraph, completely discrediting whatever it says? So there goes another paragraph!

See how annoying it is when I argue against myself? That totally shows how annoying it is to point out logical fallacies in others' arguments, because I'm doing it to myself. Except for the fact that that is a logical fallacy, because if I do it to myself then it might be different if somebody does it to somebody else. Does it even make any sense? And if I completely missed the topic, is there even any point to point out all of the logical fallacies in this 100% true, non sarcastic post?

O.o

Shiverberry wrote:

O.o

xD

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

*cough* Fallacy Fallacy *cough*

Scratchifier wrote:

1. Taking the follow numbers away from the profile page does nothing. Well, it does do something. It annoys me because I have to load one more page just to check more followers. This means that I'll hardly know when somebody unfollows me. I like to know if that happens because I don't want to be advertising something to repeatedly and annoying people, being too active… etc. However, about the people who are obsessed with followers, how will that discourage them? If they have enough time to spam several hundred people with follow requests, how is clicking one little button going to get them to stop? And taking the numbers away doesn't mean that they don't want followers any more.

it's purpose is to annoy you out of caring so much about your following count. sure it won't directly stop spam follows but that's not its job.

2. I like to keep track of everything on my profile and projects so that I know what people like, what types of projects encourage what types of activity, and so on. For example, I can tell you that my Updates project got quite a number of random comments on my profile, love its on my other projects, and not many love its for itself (compared to my other things of course). Now I know that disguising a game as an Updates project is a terrible marketing ploy. If there were no numbers, then how would I know not to do that again?

You drive a valid point that numbers help to summarize activity across our profile and projects. However the anecdote you gave should have reflected your use of the following/follower numbers, not your projects.

3. When you visit a new profile, you usually have no idea how good or bad a user is at Scratch. Should you check out their projects? Should you not? Is the user just getting all of their thumbnails from another user that makes them look better at Scratch? Well, to determine this, many [weasel word– how many is “many”?] Scratchers look at the number of followers. If there are a lot of followers in a short amount of time, then you know that it's probably worth checking out their projects! I usually will compare the number of followers to the joined date so that I know if the given Scratcher is something new in the world of Scratch. I'm not saying that it's not worth checking out projects if the user doesn't have many followers, but I subconsciously do this a lot and it's really annoying if I need to click twice more to do this! That's a big waste of time! (Thanks to other Scratchers for reminding me of this).

It's good that you pointed out that checking projects is accounted for in the worth of a user, but it's not good that your habits contradict it. If something is a “big waste of time” for you, you should reflect that Scratch is the same big waste of time because you're not getting paid for projects, you're not earning social respect in real life, and you're overall just doing it for fun and learning. And so adding one mere click to figure out the follower/following number is not such a big waste of time (unless you have dial-up speed).

Furthermore, it is okay to say no once in a while to someone whose popularity is booming because of a cool welcoming project, because you can wait until they testify their true potential. I cannot tell how many times I have seen people follow a new user simply because of their name and logo, then are disappointed when the user leaves because they didn't feel the praise they got earlier from getting followed was earned. You see what I'm saying?

4. In a matter of minutes, I've several Scratchers have all gotten annoyed at this change. They are also some reputable Scratchers, such as: VoltageGames, WILL_WAM, ELSA_THE_CONQUEROR… need I continue?

Yep.

List of more annoyed Scratchers: -Flash-, TheAnimationShow, Flygon12345678, -Because_Im_Batman-, PRETTY_GIRL, dinocatmeow, SnowKittyartist, helloyowazzup, BLACKSWIFT, THEGENERALESS, aminameow4, GetWithTheProgram, MTCRAFTER, RED-drag0n, Lilry1, austin360, SUPERDOGGY, SIFEF, sophielymes527, Fox16, HAnthony, AQUAFLAME, -THEDOCTOR-, GRANNYCOOKIES, andrewjl, tiny288, Infinity-, Eugenbross, gcenac, TheMistyPuppy2000, DARKCRYSTALBALL, Epicness123, JETPAC, flexaxu, __–Programmer–__, MiniMacro, L-Rignity, jrezneckbhds, violin16, hacker, Teanaway, Story_Teller, Kreyos (KILOZ)…

Now, how many Scratchers are there? How many don't like this? I'm going to let you count and see how annoying that is.

As a simple note, Scratchers in all capitals are well known Scratchers who have worked hard for their popularity. They are all annoyed at you right now. Is this what you wanted?

47 (including you). In your opinion, you've formed a small army with the potential for grassroots politics. But that number pales in comparison to the number of people who either accept, don't care about, or haven't noticed the update (over 4000). As long as those 4000+ users don't complain about the update, which so far they have not, then the update has done its job.

Superdoggy wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

Mehhhhh. This is getting annoying. I'm not even going to reply to that. Although if I were, I'd say “Even if I were to post the most convincing argument on the whole site, you'd probably be able to find a reason why I would be ‘wrong’. At some point you have to drop the ‘book of logical fallacies’, because it really is annoying and if they're that obvious, then you don't even have to point them out.”

Although, now that I said that, I think that I probably missed the point of your comment with my first reply. If I were to look back onto my first paragraph, I could probably find a few so-called “logical fallacies” with it. But even if I did point out that it's only hypothetical, not at all sarcastic, or completely off topic, that doesn't even add to the conversation. Because it is so obvious, it shouldn't really matter if I point that out or not.

However, now that I said that, I just noticed that I wrote that paragraph backward and it really doesn't matter much, it's invalid. There are literally so many problems with it that it should be ignored completely. Although this paragraph should be ignored completely too, because I used the word “literally” wrong, so that invalidates the whole paragraph here. Although that is a Straw Man, you don't have to use words right to see how confusing things get and why blue and not pink?

Seriously, it's not like I'm being sarcastic. I would never do that. It pains me to see all of my arguments discredited because I used a few smilies or because I didn't phrase things right. In fact, I didn't use any smilies in this post at all! I would never type anything like “” or anything of the like. Besides, if I did, wouldn't that point out a logical fallacy in this sarcastic paragraph, completely discrediting whatever it says? So there goes another paragraph!

See how annoying it is when I argue against myself? That totally shows how annoying it is to point out logical fallacies in others' arguments, because I'm doing it to myself. Except for the fact that that is a logical fallacy, because if I do it to myself then it might be different if somebody does it to somebody else. Does it even make any sense? And if I completely missed the topic, is there even any point to point out all of the logical fallacies in this 100% true, non sarcastic post?

1. Calm down. You're getting REALLY defensive.
2. Sarcasm is where you make some sort of ironic statement as a joke or to mock something. You keep on using it as a word that means “Any flaws in my arguments are a joke and so my argument is perfect”.
3.

superdoggy wrote:

I'm not even going to reply to that. Although if I were, I'd say “Even if I were to post the most convincing argument on the whole site, you'd probably be able to find a reason why I would be ‘wrong’. At some point you have to drop the ‘book of logical fallacies’, because it really is annoying and if they're that obvious, then you don't even have to point them out.”

4. ‘Literally’ is used so much as ‘figuratively’ that depending on the context, they can mean the same thing. While technically you would be wrong, that's not something that someone is going to complain about.
5. Your whole argument was made to distract from the conversation. The point of the fallacy post was not to say that you made a logical fallacy. It was to point out that there are more sides of it that you were saying and that you were making it sound like a 2-sided argument when it was not.

I think that's enough for now.

Zro716 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

1. Taking the follow numbers away from the profile page does nothing. Well, it does do something. It annoys me because I have to load one more page just to check more followers. This means that I'll hardly know when somebody unfollows me. I like to know if that happens because I don't want to be advertising something to repeatedly and annoying people, being too active… etc. However, about the people who are obsessed with followers, how will that discourage them? If they have enough time to spam several hundred people with follow requests, how is clicking one little button going to get them to stop? And taking the numbers away doesn't mean that they don't want followers any more.

it's purpose is to annoy you out of caring so much about your following count. sure it won't directly stop spam follows but that's not its job.

2. I like to keep track of everything on my profile and projects so that I know what people like, what types of projects encourage what types of activity, and so on. For example, I can tell you that my Updates project got quite a number of random comments on my profile, love its on my other projects, and not many love its for itself (compared to my other things of course). Now I know that disguising a game as an Updates project is a terrible marketing ploy. If there were no numbers, then how would I know not to do that again?

You drive a valid point that numbers help to summarize activity across our profile and projects. However the anecdote you gave should have reflected your use of the following/follower numbers, not your projects.

3. When you visit a new profile, you usually have no idea how good or bad a user is at Scratch. Should you check out their projects? Should you not? Is the user just getting all of their thumbnails from another user that makes them look better at Scratch? Well, to determine this, many [weasel word– how many is “many”?] Scratchers look at the number of followers. If there are a lot of followers in a short amount of time, then you know that it's probably worth checking out their projects! I usually will compare the number of followers to the joined date so that I know if the given Scratcher is something new in the world of Scratch. I'm not saying that it's not worth checking out projects if the user doesn't have many followers, but I subconsciously do this a lot and it's really annoying if I need to click twice more to do this! That's a big waste of time! (Thanks to other Scratchers for reminding me of this).

It's good that you pointed out that checking projects is accounted for in the worth of a user, but it's not good that your habits contradict it. If something is a “big waste of time” for you, you should reflect that Scratch is the same big waste of time because you're not getting paid for projects, you're not earning social respect in real life, and you're overall just doing it for fun and learning. And so adding one mere click to figure out the follower/following number is not such a big waste of time (unless you have dial-up speed).

Furthermore, it is okay to say no once in a while to someone whose popularity is booming because of a cool welcoming project, because you can wait until they testify their true potential. I cannot tell how many times I have seen people follow a new user simply because of their name and logo, then are disappointed when the user leaves because they didn't feel the praise they got earlier from getting followed was earned. You see what I'm saying?

4. In a matter of minutes, I've several Scratchers have all gotten annoyed at this change. They are also some reputable Scratchers, such as: VoltageGames, WILL_WAM, ELSA_THE_CONQUEROR… need I continue?

Yep.

List of more annoyed Scratchers: -Flash-, TheAnimationShow, Flygon12345678, -Because_Im_Batman-, PRETTY_GIRL, dinocatmeow, SnowKittyartist, helloyowazzup, BLACKSWIFT, THEGENERALESS, aminameow4, GetWithTheProgram, MTCRAFTER, RED-drag0n, Lilry1, austin360, SUPERDOGGY, SIFEF, sophielymes527, Fox16, HAnthony, AQUAFLAME, -THEDOCTOR-, GRANNYCOOKIES, andrewjl, tiny288, Infinity-, Eugenbross, gcenac, TheMistyPuppy2000, DARKCRYSTALBALL, Epicness123, JETPAC, flexaxu, __–Programmer–__, MiniMacro, L-Rignity, jrezneckbhds, violin16, hacker, Teanaway, Story_Teller, Kreyos (KILOZ)…

Now, how many Scratchers are there? How many don't like this? I'm going to let you count and see how annoying that is.

As a simple note, Scratchers in all capitals are well known Scratchers who have worked hard for their popularity. They are all annoyed at you right now. Is this what you wanted?

47 (including you). In your opinion, you've formed a small army with the potential for grassroots politics. But that number pales in comparison to the number of people who either accept, don't care about, or haven't noticed the update (over 4000). As long as those 4000+ users don't complain about the update, which so far they have not, then the update has done its job.

Zro716, WHY do you think this topic has 36 pages??? If I'm correct, The majority of people who got the nerve to post do NOT like the update. Not to take sides, but I'm with 900miles.

Zro716 wrote:

47 (including you). In your opinion, you've formed a small army with the potential for grassroots politics. But that number pales in comparison to the number of people who either accept, don't care about, or haven't noticed the update (over 4000). As long as those 4000+ users don't complain about the update, which so far they have not, then the update has done its job.

When you say 4000, I think you mean 4 million.

Shiverberry wrote:

Zro716, WHY do you think this topic has 36 pages??? If I'm correct, The majority of people who got the nerve to post do NOT like the update. Not to take sides, but I'm with 900miles.

It has 36 pages because mostly, around 5 people have been arguing that long. Yeah. It's kinda insane.

900miles wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

*cough* Fallacy Fallacy *cough*

Superdoggy wrote:

“appealing to authority”

what are we even fighting for anymore

Unlocked wrote:

Shiverberry wrote:

Zro716, WHY do you think this topic has 36 pages??? If I'm correct, The majority of people who got the nerve to post do NOT like the update. Not to take sides, but I'm with 900miles.

It has 36 pages because mostly, around 5 people have been arguing that long. Yeah. It's kinda insane.

The Scratch Team should have asked the community to vote if they would have liked this update or not before actually DOING it.

Zro716 wrote:

900miles wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

*cough* Fallacy Fallacy *cough*

Superdoggy wrote:

“appealing to authority”

what are we even fighting for anymore

I think that people are just being defensive and then other people are being defensive about their defensiveness and no one is actually saying anything useful.

Shiverberry wrote:

Unlocked wrote:

Shiverberry wrote:

Zro716, WHY do you think this topic has 36 pages??? If I'm correct, The majority of people who got the nerve to post do NOT like the update. Not to take sides, but I'm with 900miles.

It has 36 pages because mostly, around 5 people have been arguing that long. Yeah. It's kinda insane.

The Scratch Team should have asked the community to vote if they would have liked this update or not before actually DOING it.

Actually, the scratch team has already said that they don't care about popular vote. They want convincing arguments and so far, they haven't seen any convincing arguments for bringing it back.

The Scratch Team could have avoided this whole thing

Shiverberry wrote:

The Scratch Team could have avoided this whole thing

a bunch of people were asking for the change when it wasn't here and then people started complaining when it came. Also, there have been a lot of problems recently that have (although no one admits it) been directly related to the follower number.

Zro716 wrote:

900miles wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

*cough* Fallacy Fallacy *cough*

Superdoggy wrote:

“appealing to authority”

what are we even fighting for anymore

Most of the things that are happening now are off topic. Why keep “fighting”?

Unlocked wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

900miles wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

Logical fallacies are the bane of honest debate. Are you implying we should debate with exaggerated claims and silly anecdotes? If you say we should be more serious in our posts, start with yourself: you're putting in xP's and xD's as if you're not taking this debate seriously. Get rid of those, then tell me what exact part of the update you don't like, and give a logical, realistic argument as to why you don't agree with it. So far all I've heard from you and scratchifier is your own subjective testimonies for putting popularity above learning from programming, then scoffing the points made against it by pointing out unrealistic flaws and giving weak counterarguments that offshoot the debate into oblivion.

If you want my opinion, here it is: deal with it. If you're not “popular”, deal with it. If you're not happy with losing a couple numbers, deal with it. You're better off focusing on the abilities of a Scratcher than the social rank of him or her. You're better off appreciating what you have and can do than lamenting what you don't have and can't do.

edit: I think I should refer you back to this post.

*cough* Fallacy Fallacy *cough*

Superdoggy wrote:

“appealing to authority”

what are we even fighting for anymore

I think that people are just being defensive and then other people are being defensive about their defensiveness and no one is actually saying anything useful.

Nah, I was just saying that he shouldn't discredit entire arguments because of some fallacies.

I actually like/don't care about this update.

Unlocked wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

47 (including you). In your opinion, you've formed a small army with the potential for grassroots politics. But that number pales in comparison to the number of people who either accept, don't care about, or haven't noticed the update (over 4000). As long as those 4000+ users don't complain about the update, which so far they have not, then the update has done its job.

When you say 4000, I think you mean 4 million.

I'm making an educated guess for how many active users are on Scratch, not how many accounts were made. (active as in doing something in the past month or so)

Shiverberry wrote:

Zro716, WHY do you think this topic has 36 pages??? If I'm correct, The majority of people who got the nerve to post do NOT like the update. Not to take sides, but I'm with 900miles.

well, check if you are correct