Support for making limit for online projects bigger, and removing the limit altogether for offline.

The 50MB limit only allows up to 40 minutes of 44100Hz music, or 79 minutes of 22050Hz music. I had to use a JSONhack to make a 90.8MB music player with 51 songs. Tetris Return, with the exact same songs, is only 0.1MB larger.

hahasamian wrote:

Scratch's audio doesn't sound very good right now anyway.

That's because Scratch uses ADPCM compression. It is much less complex than, say, MP3 compression. Scratch has an audio editor though, and with more complex compression algorithms, I don't know how that would work. The ADPCM compression cannot be turned off, but without it the sounds will be 4 times larger.

ihgfedcba wrote:

The 50MB limit only allows up to 40 minutes of 44100Hz music, or 79 minutes of 22050Hz music. I had to use a JSONhack to make a 90.8MB music player with 51 songs. Tetris Return, with the exact same songs, is only 0.1MB larger.

hahasamian wrote:

Scratch's audio doesn't sound very good right now anyway.

That's because Scratch uses ADPCM compression. It is much less complex than, say, MP3 compression. Scratch has an audio editor though, and with more complex compression algorithms, I don't know how that would work. The ADPCM compression cannot be turned off, but without it the sounds will be 4 times larger.

Yeah, I supposed it used some weird compression to make that sound.
My point was, if they bumped up the size limit a little, maybe they could support MP3 files in the editor!
EDIT: Please ignore this next segment!
Let's take Mega Man Battle Network 3's soundtrack for an example. It's a pretty sizable soundtrack (spanning 22 songs, I don't think Scratchers need to shoot very far beyond that), and an MP3 rip of it takes up approximately 97 MB of space. If you took out the looping/fading segments from the MP3s, you'd probably get about 49 MB of space (I just divided by 2, I'm pretty sure every soundtrack there loops twice then fades out). The files themselves sound way better than what Scratch currently sounds like, and apparently can just barely fit into the current size limit. So after some studying,
I say that the limit should be bumped up a little and that MP3s should be supported.

Please ignore the above post. I somehow forgot how compressors work there.
Hey guys, have you ever heard of Nitrome? They made a lot of awesome 20-level Flash games back in the day, and each one had low loading times, a lot of them containing only two soundtracks (one for levels, one for menus). These soundtracks were also often very compressed, but it didn't matter because each one was awesome. Just listen to the level theme from Super Treadmill and I think you'll understand.
What I'm trying to say here is, maybe we shoot for what Nitrome accomplished. They managed to make amazing games using only two soundtracks. Perhaps we on Scratch simply need to go for quality over quantity.
(And maybe Nitrome-level compression could make it sound better somehow, too…)

I would like it to be a lot higher, maybe 100 MB (currently it's 50 MB) but not removed.

This still gets replies?

Kal_Kal_Kal wrote:

Let's do some math…

With almost +10,000,000 projects shared, and about 56,185,458 unshared projects, Scratch is growing each day. Let's estimate each project takes up about 1 mb

1000 kb = 1 mb
1000 mb = 1 gb
1000 gb = 1 tb

66,185,458,000 kb
66,185,458 mb
66,185.458 gb
66.185458 tb

Now, each project gets 1 gb,

66,185,458,000,000 kb
66,185,458,000 mb
66,185,458 gb
66,185.458 tb

Now, that seems unrealistic, right? Now, lets hop to 2017, when Scratch has more users and more popularity, and there are 1,000,000,000 projects.
1 gb per project.

1,000,000,000,000,000 kb
1,000,000,000,000 mb
1,000,000,000 gb
1,000,000 tb

If you have 1,000,000 Terabytes laying around, I'll support, but as of now…

No support

Aaah yes - no support. I bet Scratch does have a few TERA-bytes lying around (ha ha ha).

One of the things you guys aren't realizing is that, despite what you may think, the project size limit isn't doing much beyond limiting our ability to put it all in one project.
Let's say I make a huge project– Let's suppose Amy Rose Adventures becomes a real, full game for the Sonic-Scratch fanbase.
In that case, the project may end up being held back from being a single one, mostly due to not having enough space to fit it all in a single project. This, of course, is due to the current size limit, and the fact that every Zone will come with at least two audio files and lots of level storage associated, not to mention other sorts of audio, sprites, and code that are used in the project as a whole.
Now, splitting up the project into several different parts may actually be good for ARA as a whole (reducing editor lag, having smaller load times, etc.), but let's consider this from a storage perspective.
If ARA was split into several projects, there would be several projects on the Scratch severs that all have exactly the same assets, these being the aforementioned sprites, audio, code, and even some music that would have to be spread throughout all of the projects. Now, this actually brings into question the entire current remix system, but that's a topic for… another Topic.
Anyway, these would be taking up extra space on the Scratch servers. So maybe the size limit should be thought over again.
And maybe we should finally let MP3s show up. I'm not asking for much here, just the ability to load and play these things.

ON THE OTHER HAND…
Average Joe Scratcher could just end up using extra space to spam long, useless audio files that have no real purpose apart from memes. That's also possible.

So what I'm trying to say is, perhaps there is a way to work around this a little. And the size limit can and does have its purpose. But I'd still really like to see the size limit being doubled or even tripled, along with modern MP3s being supported (which would actually allow Scratchers to have good audio in less space).

Maybe someday I'll just mod Scratch 3. And make GSUE and other GSE projects actually be supported in said mod.

apgonscratch wrote:

Y E S !

O H G O S H
Okay, yeah, note this is just a proposal though. Basically Scratch but with all the (useful) features we've been asking for.

Kal_Kal_Kal wrote:

Let's do some math…

With almost +10,000,000 projects shared, and about 56,185,458 unshared projects, Scratch is growing each day.
-snip-
Now, that seems unrealistic, right? Now, lets hop to 2017, when Scratch has more users and more popularity, and there are 1,000,000,000 projects.
1 gb per project.

1,000,000,000,000,000 kb
1,000,000,000,000 mb
1,000,000,000 gb
1,000,000 tb

If you have 1,000,000 Terabytes laying around, I'll support, but as of now…

No support

Adding on to that, let's use these hard drives that cost $330. We need 100,000 of them, setting Scratch back by $329,990,000. But if some of the hard drives fail, many projects are gone, so let's set it up in RAID 1. We will need 200,000 of them, setting them back by $659,980,000. (these are with a 1GB size limit)
–
No support, Scratch simply could not handle projects without size limits. This could work with the offline editor, but not for the online editor.

Sure, the limit could be increased for those with faster computers (or mobile devices too in the case of 3.0), but the complete absence of a limit is just absurd. It'd be far too easy to just break your device, Scratch, or even crash the site. If everyone started creating projects of immense size, the site would experience lots of lag.

If the limit was even to increase from, let's say, 50MB to 200MB (just an example), maybe when a user views a large project they could receive a warning before they start the project that says it may be too large for their device to handle?

-PixelByte- wrote:

Sure, the limit could be increased for those with faster computers (or mobile devices too in the case of 3.0), but the complete absence of a limit is just absurd. It'd be far too easy to just break your device, Scratch, or even crash the site. If everyone started creating projects of immense size, the site would experience lots of lag.

If the limit was even to increase from, let's say, 50MB to 200MB (just an example), maybe when a user views a large project they could receive a warning before they start the project that says it may be too large for their device to handle?

A project size does not mean CPU abuse. See my Tetris Return and Music player, both about 90MB.

I think the perfect compromise here is to maybe slightly increase the limit (not to the level of 1GB but maybe 100MB?) and allow hosting assets on a PUBLIC location approved by the ST. Hosted assets (images, sounds) don't count towards the limit. If a project has hosted assets and it is reported for inappropriate content, a bot automatically unlinks the assets, flagging the URLs to be hidden and not loaded.

braxbroscratcher wrote:

I think the perfect compromise here is to maybe slightly increase the limit (not to the level of 1GB but maybe 100MB?) and allow hosting assets on a PUBLIC location approved by the ST. Hosted assets (images, sounds) don't count towards the limit. If a project has hosted assets and it is reported for inappropriate content, a bot automatically unlinks the assets, flagging the URLs to be hidden and not loaded.

This actually sounds pretty good of an idea.
My main issue might be what would happen if I tried to edit a sprite -just slightly- for my project.

I would think it would be fair if it was slightly raised to 100 - 120 M. This would allow at least 30 or 40 medium-size gifs and at least 30 average length songs. That's my pic.

hahasamian wrote:

braxbroscratcher wrote:

I think the perfect compromise here is to maybe slightly increase the limit (not to the level of 1GB but maybe 100MB?) and allow hosting assets on a PUBLIC location approved by the ST. Hosted assets (images, sounds) don't count towards the limit. If a project has hosted assets and it is reported for inappropriate content, a bot automatically unlinks the assets, flagging the URLs to be hidden and not loaded.

This actually sounds pretty good of an idea.
My main issue might be what would happen if I tried to edit a sprite -just slightly- for my project.

You'd have to simply download the sprite's costume and change it, then re-upload the change to the same place. Hosted assets are basically public files for use in Scratch projects that the owner of the project is storing on their own storage media, rather than the Scratch servers.

hahasamian wrote:

Greenduck54 wrote:

Happysoul05 wrote:

TheAdriCoolManDude wrote:

Making the limit higher, yes. Not removing the limit.

It is enough.

Just remove some sounds.
Use clones instead of duplicated sprites.

No, the current limit is definitely not enough, as bigger projects can easily hit the limit and not be able to be finished.

Yeah, I'm going with the Duck on this one.
It'd be really nice if there were a higher limit, maybe 100 MB, which in today's world is still not too big.
Scratch's audio doesn't sound very good right now anyway.
On the other hand, if we could make a worthwhile music editor on Scratch, using the basic instruments, that'd be really cool and save on a lot of space, while still giving the player a lot of original music. But the quality probably still couldn't match that of most modern gaming soundtracks. Anyone have a MIDI reader for Scratch yet?
Oooh, apparently there is one, but I have no idea how that thing is supposed to work.

Yes the thing is that if you want to make QUALITY Scratch Content, which is great, you have to need more space. Very important that the Scratch team is going to hear our suffering xD

nintend_dave wrote:

hahasamian wrote:

Greenduck54 wrote:

Happysoul05 wrote:

TheAdriCoolManDude wrote:

Making the limit higher, yes. Not removing the limit.

It is enough.

Just remove some sounds.
Use clones instead of duplicated sprites.

No, the current limit is definitely not enough, as bigger projects can easily hit the limit and not be able to be finished.

Yeah, I'm going with the Duck on this one.
It'd be really nice if there were a higher limit, maybe 100 MB, which in today's world is still not too big.
Scratch's audio doesn't sound very good right now anyway.
On the other hand, if we could make a worthwhile music editor on Scratch, using the basic instruments, that'd be really cool and save on a lot of space, while still giving the player a lot of original music. But the quality probably still couldn't match that of most modern gaming soundtracks. Anyone have a MIDI reader for Scratch yet?
Oooh, apparently there is one, but I have no idea how that thing is supposed to work.

Yes the thing is that if you want to make QUALITY Scratch Content, which is great, you have to need more space. Very important that the Scratch team is going to hear our suffering xD

Well, I have mentioned some alternatives that still let you put out some pretty good stuff.
I think it may still be possible to save files with data on them from Scratch and onto your computer, via List Exports. Of course, you can also upload them back into any other list.
So that means that you can have one save file for one game that goes across multiple projects– this could make some otherwise impossible games (as they would take up too much space to fit into a single project), possible.
Cool huh?
However, Scratch's audio still has much to be improved upon.
And I'm pretty sure Scratch 3 sounds worse, so that's a bad sign.

braxbroscratcher wrote:

hahasamian wrote:

braxbroscratcher wrote:

I think the perfect compromise here is to maybe slightly increase the limit (not to the level of 1GB but maybe 100MB?) and allow hosting assets on a PUBLIC location approved by the ST. Hosted assets (images, sounds) don't count towards the limit. If a project has hosted assets and it is reported for inappropriate content, a bot automatically unlinks the assets, flagging the URLs to be hidden and not loaded.

This actually sounds pretty good of an idea.
My main issue might be what would happen if I tried to edit a sprite -just slightly- for my project.

You'd have to simply download the sprite's costume and change it, then re-upload the change to the same place. Hosted assets are basically public files for use in Scratch projects that the owner of the project is storing on their own storage media, rather than the Scratch servers.

Again, this is probably the best way.