Redesigning the header--Expandable Search Bar, The Discuss Button, and About Button! Win-win Solution for #BringItBack!

wWSunPandaWw

Yes, I know why they took out the discuss button.
Yes, I do think those reasons are justified.
But I do believe that there is still a way to #bringitback.
So, like most Wiki Editors and Forum Helpers, I was browsing the Wiki, and I needed to search something up to answer a question.
Before I clicked on the search bar, it looked like this:

As you can see, it was tiny.
So then I clicked on it to search, and
WOAH.
It looked like this:

Before I clicked on it to search, it was small and taken over by a lot of other buttons (and keep in mind the Wiki has more buttons on it's navbar than the Scratch Website), then I clicked on it to search and it expanded and took over the buttons, so I could actually see what I was typing in! I could also click on the search icon again to put it back to a smaller size.
Why can't we have this feature on the Website? That way, everybody wins. We can keep discuss, the search bar size in other languages won't prevent us from doing this, so that way, the community and Scratch Team can both be happy.

Also, I do believe a few buttons would be removed.
I think About should be removed, because we have an entire section for that in the footer, and it's usually parents who get their kids interested in Scratch in the first place, so they'd obviously want to dive really deep into what Scratch is about, not the kids, and the rest of the stuff in the navbar is focused around features the kids need when they use the website.
whew long sentence
Or, if the Scratch Team doesn't want to remove the About Button entirely from the footer, then at least remove the button once logged in, and then replace it with Discuss. Why would you create a Scratch account without knowing what Scratch is about?
I also think the My Stuff button should be removed BUT DON'T DISCUSS THAT HERE, BECAUSE THERE'S A TOPIC RIGHT HERE ALL ABOUT THAT.

Reasons by other Scratchers why this is good:

XCat wrote:
This is a win-win solution and would mean the header is orientated towards the kids - and the footer is orientated towards parents researching Scratch - which is a good way to have the website set up.

stickfiregames wrote:
Since it expands when you click on it, there doesn't need to be a search bar in “small mode” at all. There could just be search button or icon, shich would save even more space in the languages that need it.

TheRealNetherBefore wrote:
This would stop a lot of complaints, let new scratchers know about the forums, and still keep the top bar uncluttered! It's one of the best solutions I've seen to this issue so far.

Why this suggestion is a good one to add:

It is really easy to add. One of the EWs on the Wiki (Kenny2Scratch) added the expandable Search Bar to the Wiki. If a Scratcher can add it, why can't a Scratch Team member? He even said that it didn't take him that long:
Kenny2Scratch wrote:
I literally did the original implementation (the one on the Wiki that sparked this whole thing) in about 5 minutes.
This keeps the community happy–there was tons of complaints once the Discuss Button was removed– and the Scratch Team happy, and Scratchers who speak other languages happy as well, because Scratchers will get their beloved Discuss Button back, It's not hard for the Scratch Team to add and isn't very time-consuming, and Scratchers who speak other languages will still be able to use the header as easily as someone who speaks English.
It will make the forums more well-known. The forums are a very important part of the website and I have learned a lot from the forums–more, really, in five months than I would have known just from the main site in a year. More knowledge of the forums will also result in less unneeded messages on Scratch Team members' profiles. I have seen tons of comments there that belong in the forums. And Scratchers will get tons more help than they usually would. Scratchers would be more aware that they can easily get help with their projects in the Help With Scripts forum, find people to voice act or animate for them in the Requests forum, Scratchers who enjoy collaborating will be at home in the Collaborations forum, and that forum is also very, very, VERY useful for Manager chats for studios. Tons of Scratchers with different interests will love the forums. The forums are the place to go if you want to talk with other Scratchers, improve the Website, keep up with the updates, welcome new members, and learn more about projects, fandoms, and Scratch Trivia and History.

Reasons why this wouldn't be added/reasons why it was removed with rebuttals:

It didn't get clicks. REBUTTAL: Most of the community mourned the loss of the Discuss button as soon as the Scratch Team announced that they removed it, thus giving more attention to the forums. I even saw multiple people leaving comments like “I never used it, but STILL!”. If the Discuss Button is added back, then it is very likely the ST will announce it (Since the ST announces every change to the website, whether it's the forums, Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, etc), and bringing more attention to the forums, thus bringing more Scratchers to click that button to test it out–and it will likely spark interests about the forums to many Scratchers–hey, someone told me to suggest things in the forums in December and look where I am now.
The Scratch Team wants to limit the use of the forums. REBUTTAL: But wanting to do that would mean they want more comments on their profiles asking them questions about scratch, suggesting things for the website, and asking for help with scripts. I've seen tons of comments like these and I can only imagine how annoying it is for the Scratch Team to handle these comments. We have the forums for a reason, so why would the Scratch Team try to extinguish them? They're super useful and a lot of people who be having tons of fun in the forums. There's something here for everybody. People can find answers to their questions easier and actually have their suggestions taken into consideration easier. The forums reduce the amount of unneeded comments on scratch teams members' profiles. So why would they want to keep the forums unknown?? Besides, if they wanted to limit the use of the forums, they could just delete them.
The Scratch Team still wants to put emphasis on the “Create”, “Explore”, and “Tips” buttons. REBUTTAL: That's why I think we should replace “About” with “Discuss” (or “Forums”, as I state below). Then we would still have four buttons instead of five, and emphasis would be on all the buttons. If the Scratch Team decided to add this suggestion and announce it in the forums, they could just say (to put emphasis on all the buttons) “We've added back the Discuss button and removed the About button, as to put emphasis on ”Create“, ”Explore“, and ”Tips". Besides, if the About button was removed, then I doubt there would be a huge uproar as there was for the Discuss button. How many logged-in users even click that button? I haven't even clicked it in 8 months because I have no reason to.
The Forums are less moderated than the main site, therefore making them less safe. REBUTTAL:
Paddle2See wrote:
Yep - the main site and the forums have different filters. The one on the forums is “hard coded” and not easy to change - so it doesn't get updated unless there is a something really serious missing from it.
Implying that the filterbot for the forums is already very complete. If you're wondering where I got that quote from, it was from a discussion in the QAS forums about a change in the filterbot on the main site and that the same change wasn't made on the forums. I assume the reason for why the forums have a more intense, harder-to-change filterbot is so that the moderators don't have to do as much work. I think it's safe to say that when implementing this filterbot, they seriously tried to fit in any and all obscene words. I'm not sure the last time this filterbot was updated, but it appears it hasn't been in a while. Meaning, the filterbot has been doing its job.
Za-Chary wrote:
If that Discuss tab was on the top page, more people would see it. Some of these people may be New Scratchers. Some of these New Scratchers might just post random stuff, without reading any stickies. Some of these New Scratchers might necropost, troll, or act unconstructively. Some people may even use the opportunity to create bots to spam the forums. An increase in inappropriate post count means an increase in Reports, and ultimately, that can lead to more work for the Scratch Team.
REBUTTAL: First of all, many thanks to Za-Chary for making a long post about this suggestion from an ST member's perspective. Anyways, back to the rebuttal.You're definitely correct when you say that some Scratchers (or New Scratchers) will spam the forums and post random stuff, and some people may go as far to make spambots. I will admit, I started off on the forums with blockspam, but over time I did learn the etiquette, if you will, for the forums. I believe others may do this as well, and they may also be told directly to read the stickies before posting and not to spam. And if spambots are created, we've dealt with them in the past. The Forum Helpers are very good with reporting spambots (speaking for the other members, not necessarily for myself) and most often of times, the spambots can get IP banned, so no other spambots can be created under that IP.
And the same situation that Za-Chary created happens all the time on featured projects. Just go click on one of them, any of them. They do have lots of nice, constructive comments on there, but it takes barely even a few scrolls and you'll see a bunch of people spamming and advertising and violating the CGs in other ways. It will add on work for the moderators, but it will also remove work for the moderators, because, well, more people will know that they should be asking the community questions in the QAS forums instead of bugging an ST member.

There's all ways to still keep the philosophy the Scratch Team was intending with originally removing the Discuss Button and still keeping the community happy.

Another, yet minor again suggestions to add to this is to possibly change the “discuss” to “forums”. I was really confused as to what “discuss” could possibly mean, but “forums” would make the use of the button much more clear and obvious.

With these ways, we can all win.

BEFORE YOU SAY NO/SEMI-/SUPPORT:
Give me reasons as to why you Do/n't Support. Blatantly saying “No Support” or “Support” isn't constructive at all and won't help me to improve my post. If you're going to say No Support, please make sure that you're not being too specific. Please try to provide something in your reply I could change or add to my post to make my suggestion better and more likely to be implemented.
If you're semi-supporting, do the same thing.
If you're going to say why you support, try to say why you'd like to see this added, and how it would improve/benefit the site. PLEASE DO NOT JUST SAY “Support for Reasons listed in the OP”, “As per the Above” or just “^^^^”. That isn't constructive at all. And here's an old proverb:
“If you don't have anything constructive to post, don't post anything at all. ”

Last edited by wWSunPandaWw (Oct. 15, 2018 14:56:11)

I moved to BelieverGirlSun

TheRealNetherBefore

Support! This would stop a lot of complaints, let new scratchers know about the forums, and still keep the top bar uncluttered! It's one of the best solutions I've seen to this issue so far.

*Drinks ketchup*
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Inkulumo

Full support, I absolutely hate scrolling down to get to discuss, and most other websites have a search button that expands when you click on it (not just the wiki!). Tips and About should be removed, tips are more useful inside a project, about is more of a parent thing.

code to easily find my posts: ZGVjb2RlcmF0ZWQ=

turkey3

Support, the Wiki's new design is something that Scratch should adopt. With drop-down menus and expandable search bar, they could fit a lot of stuff into the header.

KJRYoshi07

Support! If it was like the Scratch Wiki, Everyone would be happy!

moved accounts lol

stickfiregames

Support.

Since it expands when you click on it, there doesn't need to be a search bar in “small mode” at all. There could just be search button or icon, shich would save even more space in the languages that need it.

If you can read this, my signature cubeupload has been eaten by an evil kumquat!

or you just used Inspect Element, you hacker

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hellounicorns2

Full and 100% support! That way you keep tips AND discuss! Also, I think the about button is good as it introduces parents and teachers to scratch, which is why most people join.

inactive :)

Haz-_-

Support for all above!
And also what are the 2 big borders on the top left and right? we could use them for space!
500+ posts YAY!

Last edited by Haz-_- (March 24, 2018 00:11:51)

 continue this hashtag if you live in australia [img]http://u.cubeupload.com/rabbitcarrots/FEDB1435D41540BFB9FB.jpeg[/img] is the image code xD oh and btw this siggy is from @Hellounicorns2    :cool:

Botcho_Otkho

Yes! Support! In this way we can keep all the buttons, the search box and the Discuss button!

I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are. - Mewtwo

-ShadowOfTheFuture-

Full support! This is a quick, easy way of bringing back the Discuss button while keeping the search bar, a win-win scenario for everyone!

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“Though the seasons come and go, and sunshine turns to snow, we will always have tomorrow up ahead.”

Wahsp

-ShadowOfTheFuture- wrote:
Full support! This is a quick, easy way of bringing back the Discuss button while keeping the search bar, a win-win scenario for everyone!

I am Wahsp

______________________________________________________

Formerly pretty active on the forums, probably mostly retired now…
If you see one of my posts send me a hello!
______________________________________________________

banana439monkey

Support!

Banana

Very inactive user who has now become a maker.
If you reply to this post it would be greatly appreciated if you could comment the link to your post on my profile!!!

wWSunPandaWw

banana439monkey wrote:
Support!

Banana

Why do you support?

I moved to BelieverGirlSun

georgeskey

Support, mainly because I really don't like having to scroll down to get to the forums, and if the button was at the top it would be more obvious to new scratchers. Also, with drop down menus you could put pretty much everything that's currently at the bottom in the header.

Apparently my old signature was lost::custom hat
Oh well, I guess this will do ::custom cap

wWSunPandaWw

Bump (it was on the second page)

I moved to BelieverGirlSun

kenny2scratch

Well, I didn't mean to spark more BringItBack discussion by introducing the expanding search bar into the skin (yes, that was me), but I guess I support the Scratch site adopting more of the Wiki's design this way. Previously, a lot of rationale behind no-supports for bringing it back was the fact that the search bar was squished to death; I hope that making the search bar expand like this will fix those issues.

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ncro2005

Full Support x∞! It would help the forums grow! Them removing it is crippling the shops in requests!!!

Last edited by ncro2005 (March 27, 2018 20:58:28)

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myeducate

-snip-
I was wrong and people started to get pretty fired up about it.

Last edited by myeducate (March 27, 2018 19:26:49)

INACTIVE
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wWSunPandaWw

myeducate wrote:
Already implemented.
The expandable search bar and Discuss button were added back to the new 3.0 website.
PROOF

*dab*
Should I close this, then?

Last edited by wWSunPandaWw (March 28, 2018 16:12:33)

I moved to BelieverGirlSun

myeducate

wWSunPandaWw wrote:
myeducate wrote:
Already implemented.
The expandable search bar and Discuss button were added back to the new 3.0 website.
PROOF
*dab*
Should I close this, then?

Yeah, if you want.

INACTIVE
SPA Member and Assosiate - Creator and overlord of ScratchNetwork - 700+ Forum Posts - Web and Desktop Dev - Fluent in VB, PHP and HTML. I'm okay at CSS and Javascript but am still learning. Sig written in PHP using the picture libary. Firebase is fun.

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