Changing the way deperession is dealt with on Scratch

doqq

Lately Ive noticed lots of users are banned for having/talking about depression. If they truly are depressed, banning them will only make it worse. If a user is known to have depression, instead of banning them, the ST can send an email to the email address linked with the account:

Dear parent/guardian of (username)
it has come to our attention that (username), whose Scratch account is registered to your E-mail, is suffering from depression. However,Scratch is not the place to talk about this sort of thing. Please tell (username) this. Thanks!
-scratch team

If the user continues to talk about depression after receiving the email, they would be banned.

WolfCat67

Wait, people have been banned for this?

FancyFoxy

WolfCat67 wrote:
Wait, people have been banned for this?

Yeah, I don't really think this is very logical. OP, could you provide us with evidence for this?

FancyFoxy

doqq wrote:
-snip-

Oh, I see now. Support, I suppose.

Last edited by FancyFoxy (Aug. 24, 2017 21:19:59)

LionHeart70

I don't think it should be really “wrong” at all.
Depression is actually fairly normal. Kids need to know that not everything is just rainbows and flowers and butterflies, and that it's okay to feel sad sometimes.. otherwise, what would they do if they feel sad? I mean, I was watching a kid's show the other day and it was an episode that talked about having negative emotions and how it's okay to feel that way sometimes. Silencing someone for having depression is NOT okay. Some people even don't want to go to a counselor or just don't want to talk to people about it (like me), so they prefer to talk to users on Scratch instead since that's their only place to turn.
Unless the user is talking a lot about things like self-harm and suicide, then it should be fine for them to talk about feeling upset. Though, they shouldn't really get banned or alerted or anything, that might make it worse, maybe if it's getting into drastic measures like that then it should send an email to the account email that suggests talking to the user about it (because things like that are pretty serious).

TL;DR I don't really think depression is something that should be silenced considering that kids should know about negative emotions since they're regular parts of life, but drastic measures like self-harm/suicide should probably have the email instead and would suggest the user's parent to talk to their child instead considering those are both really serious.

ItchyCatIII

doqq wrote:
Lately Ive noticed lots of users are banned for having/talking about depression. If they truly are depressed, banning them will only make it worse. If a user is known to have depression, instead of banning them, the ST can send an email to the email address linked with the account:

Dear parent/guardian of (username)
it has come to our attention that (username), whose Scratch account is registered to your E-mail, is suffering from depression. However,Scratch is not the place to talk about this sort of thing. Please tell (username) this. Thanks!
-scratch team

If the user continues to talk about depression after receiving the email, they would be banned.

Depression should not necessarily be kept off of the website, although if somebody is scaring people or something, then maybe some of it can be censored (for example, if someone makes a project about why life is useless, it should be censored as it can have really bad effects on young children to see something like that). However, just depression in general, as long as it won't scare young children or potentially make them depressed, should not be censored.

But, I think that if a user is depressed, it needs attention. The Scratch Team should try to get in touch with the user's parents, and let them know about the symptoms their child is showing - often, people are willing to say things on the internet (like that they are depressed) that they would not say face-to-face to their parents, sadly. I think the Scratch Team should let parents know (I would guess via the account email) that their child may benefit from professional help due to symptoms of depression, not because this helps keep Scratch safe, but because it helps make sure that the Scratcher gets proper help to fix their problem before it's too late.

Last edited by ItchyCatIII (Aug. 25, 2017 01:52:13)

sharngi

100% support

KingOfAwesome58219

Here's my two cents:

Simply discussing depression in and of itself, whether that be about a users own experience with it or just a discussion on its effects, is not a banworthy action - OP seems to be basing this assumption on one or two examples where the facts aren't clear.

The dilemma moderators face when dealing with a user with depression is complicated. Is it the scratch team's job to intervene? Is preventing that user from speaking about it safer so as the keep them from unintentionally influencing other Scratchers negatively, or would banning/muting them make the situation worse? Every case is different, especially when you consider that many people that suffer from depression don't endure through only depression. Anxiety, serious self esteem issues, misanthropy, and other mental issues might be a result of or cause depression, and because of those many different combinations every is case different. In OPs case, they learned of what went down supposedly after it happened, and likely they don't have the details . I trust the Scratch Team is capable of making rational decisions on whats best for a user when they make alarming comments that could be (or outright state) signs of depression.

That being said, I don't think immediately bringing the ban hammer on someone discussing serious topics is a good idea. Comments encouraging self-harm and/or suicide as well as users saying that they are participating in or considering it are never appropriate for a website like Scratch - but it wouldn't hurt to give them not only a warning alert but also an alert that looks gives them ideas on how to deal with their distress.

RetroTV

Well, as that would be more helpful, the alert is sort of… scary? I guess
“…and even lead to death”
Maybe it could be a bit diffrnt

jji10

Probably not a ban but it would be worth at least a delete (of the comment) and maybe an alert, possibly with advice on what to do if you have depression.

Charles12310

LionHeart70 wrote:
I don't think it should be really “wrong” at all.
Depression is actually fairly normal. Kids need to know that not everything is just rainbows and flowers and butterflies, and that it's okay to feel sad sometimes.. otherwise, what would they do if they feel sad? I mean, I was watching a kid's show the other day and it was an episode that talked about having negative emotions and how it's okay to feel that way sometimes. Silencing someone for having depression is NOT okay. Some people even don't want to go to a counselor or just don't want to talk to people about it (like me), so they prefer to talk to users on Scratch instead since that's their only place to turn.
Unless the user is talking a lot about things like self-harm and suicide, then it should be fine for them to talk about feeling upset. Though, they shouldn't really get banned or alerted or anything, that might make it worse, maybe if it's getting into drastic measures like that then it should send an email to the account email that suggests talking to the user about it (because things like that are pretty serious).

TL;DR I don't really think depression is something that should be silenced considering that kids should know about negative emotions since they're regular parts of life, but drastic measures like self-harm/suicide should probably have the email instead and would suggest the user's parent to talk to their child instead considering those are both really serious.

Support. I see nothing wrong with it. It's just someone expressing themselves. How is that a community threat? We should stop forbidding stuff for exaggerated reasons.

jji10

LionHeart70 wrote:
-snip-

I disagree. Talking about depression is fine but talking about depression with and to kids who are about 8 or 9 isn't. Sure, they need to know that the world isn't just “rainbows and flowers and butterflies” but I'd rather delay that as long as possible. Not to mention that I'd like them to learn from their parents, not some stranger on the internet ranting about their feelings.

KingOfAwesome58219

RetroTV wrote:

Well, as that would be more helpful, the alert is sort of… scary? I guess
“…and even lead to death”
Maybe it could be a bit diffrnt

Being shocking is a somewhat effective way to get someone out of denial.
I took the message from what Instagram gives you when you show signs of depression (i.e. looking through posts tagged with #depression), I assume they know what they're doing.

Last edited by KingOfAwesome58219 (Aug. 25, 2017 05:28:30)

snernow

Whoa nelly, I've seen tons of people get banned for that. I think it's not right that already on-the-verge people are being mistreated for trying to reach out for help. Shouldn't Scratch just remove the project, and say, link to websites or contacts corresponding to their location? (What I mean is that someone in Germany would not be receiving Depression Hotlines for Brazil. That would probably not help.)

KingOfAwesome58219

snernow wrote:
(What I mean is that someone in Germany would not be receiving Depression Hotlines for Brazil. That would probably not help.)

Suicide hotlines are generally international.

People with depression might need help, but they are still responsible for their actions. Making a project about considering or encouraging suicide is obviously a rule breaker.
But yes, giving them options for help are a must. Many kids with depression likely see scratch as their only community where they can openly talk to people without being judged and I suppose taking that away from them completely with no warning or anything is not going to help anyone or improve their actions. (Sorry for run-on)

Last edited by KingOfAwesome58219 (Aug. 25, 2017 16:34:38)

Paddle2See

Talking with your friends about being down and the problems in your life is fine for Scratch. So far as I know, we don't take any action until we feel that the conversation has gotten too intense for Scratch - usually when suicide or self-harm comes up. At this point, we send a notification to the Scratcher making the comments letting them know of some resources they can use to get help and also letting them know that the conversation has gotten too intense for Scratch. If the notification is ignored - then the account is blocked until we can hear from a parent or guardian that the Scratcher is getting help.

That's my understanding of how things are generally handled - there may be variations depending on the circumstances of the event.

We can't just reach out to a parent right away as we don't have the parent's email address. All we have is the address associated with the account, which may be the parent, the account owner, or even completely abandoned. So we decided to go with the notification approach, followed by a block if the issue continues.

Charles12310

sharngi wrote:
100% support

please provide a reason for this.

Blackout32

doqq wrote:
Lately Ive noticed lots of users are banned for having/talking about depression. If they truly are depressed, banning them will only make it worse. If a user is known to have depression, instead of banning them, the ST can send an email to the email address linked with the account:

Dear parent/guardian of (username)
it has come to our attention that (username), whose Scratch account is registered to your E-mail, is suffering from depression. However,Scratch is not the place to talk about this sort of thing. Please tell (username) this. Thanks!
-scratch team

If the user continues to talk about depression after receiving the email, they would be banned.

WAIT. Banning them would just make their depression WORSE I don't know why ST would do this, It is not against the Community Guidelines, So ST should really stop doing this

Lots and Lots and Lots of support.

WolfCat67

Blackout32 wrote:
doqq wrote:
Lately Ive noticed lots of users are banned for having/talking about depression. If they truly are depressed, banning them will only make it worse. If a user is known to have depression, instead of banning them, the ST can send an email to the email address linked with the account:

Dear parent/guardian of (username)
it has come to our attention that (username), whose Scratch account is registered to your E-mail, is suffering from depression. However,Scratch is not the place to talk about this sort of thing. Please tell (username) this. Thanks!
-scratch team

If the user continues to talk about depression after receiving the email, they would be banned.

WAIT. Banning them would just make their depression WORSE I don't know why ST would do this, It is not against the Community Guidelines, So ST should really stop doing this

Lots and Lots and Lots of support.

They do it only if they start discussing the inappropriate parts of depression, such as self-harm. See Paddle2See's post on the previous page; the post explains it all well. Basically, if they talk about the inappropriate parts of depression, and that they may be doing it themselves, they will get an alert telling them to stop talking about that, and also that some help is needed in some way. If they don't follow this, they are blocked as stuff like that is not allowed on the site. For example, someone with depression posting something about having negative thoughts all the time and that they don't like it is fine, but a project saying, say, “life is pointless” would not be allowed.

I-Iz-A-Litten

Paddle2See wrote:
Talking with your friends about being down and the problems in your life is fine for Scratch. So far as I know, we don't take any action until we feel that the conversation has gotten too intense for Scratch - usually when suicide or self-harm comes up. At this point, we send a notification to the Scratcher making the comments letting them know of some resources they can use to get help and also letting them know that the conversation has gotten too intense for Scratch. If the notification is ignored - then the account is blocked until we can hear from a parent or guardian that the Scratcher is getting help.

That's my understanding of how things are generally handled - there may be variations depending on the circumstances of the event.

We can't just reach out to a parent right away as we don't have the parent's email address. All we have is the address associated with the account, which may be the parent, the account owner, or even completely abandoned. So we decided to go with the notification approach, followed by a block if the issue continues.

that seems fair, depression is nothing to smile about, I also think you should talk to your parents if your sad for any reason. I also think the national suicide prevention hotline should not be censored by the phone number censor. Sorry if its off-topic.

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