We should stop making a big deal about the discuss button (now with reasons!)

I-Iz-A-Litten

why we should stop making a big deal out of this!

1. We still have access to the forums.

2. #Bring_it_back is getting pretty annoying to me,

3. Some people say the ST sucks because of this, thats very disrespectful!

4. The only reason people complain about this is because of New Scratchers finding the forums, even though there is a link to the forums in the Scratch Welcoming Committee! studio! (don't believe me, click here https://scratch.mit.edu/studios/146521/)

I ran out of reasons, if you have one, tell me.

this list is no way meant to offend people

Last edited by I-Iz-A-Litten (Aug. 7, 2017 20:03:23)

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FancyFoxy

Amen.

THIS IS MY SIGNATURE. THIS MEANS IT IS AN AUTOMATIC MESSAGE THAT APPEARS AT THE BOTTOM OF ALL MY POSTS.
Hi! I'm FancyFoxy! I create animations and games that were never, EVER meant to be taken seriously.
FancyFoxy Heroes and #Thanksgiving are some of my latest projects, check them out!

monstermash3

But the problem is, New Scratchers might not know where to look. It's buried in the footer, so you basically have to have read the announcement topic or found another link to the forums (like the one on the Tips page) to know how to get to the forums.

(Swallowed by an evil kumquat who was just taking a walk in the neighborhood of evil kumquats when they saw a garage sale where they bought a plate which they used to eat but they discovered that it leaked and they went to get their money back but the sale was over so they went in the house but the door was locked so they got their key but it didn't fit so they went home to use the key on the right door which was their own door and then they decided to swallow a signature for no reason.)

FancyFoxy

monstermash3 wrote:
But the problem is, New Scratchers might not know where to look. It's buried in the footer, so you basically have to have read the announcement topic or found another link to the forums (like the one on the Tips page) to know how to get to the forums.

Not necessarily.

Time to combine all my arguments against #Bring_it_back into one giant post!
(please snip this and the following when quoting me)

The appearance of the Discuss button on the header wasn't paying for its cost. In some languages, the search bar is practically invisible with the Discuss button there. Maybe not in English, but we need to care about foreigners. The other buttons deserve their position. Create? Useful for anyone making projects! Explore? So you can check out everything made by others. Tips? So you can learn about the basics of Scratch in an easy-to-follow, nicely organized way! About? So you can learn about Scratch and join if you think it's cool! Discuss? Well, maybe it would be useful, but many people on Scratch disagree. We already have links to the community through projects and comments and such. And there are plenty of people who DO use the forums that can tell you about it! Say you ask someone a question about your project on their profile. There's a chance that they know about the Forums and will tell you to ask there! I've done it. We haven't lost all ways to the discussion forums. And in the Tips page, there's even a giant link to the Forums! So people can learn about it there too! Scratch removed the button because they wanted to encourage people to make projects! The main goal of the Scratch Team is to get kids programming. The discussion forums is just an accessory to Scratch. It's not something we need. The Scratch Team removed the button with all that in mind. And it's just a shortcut, we still have the forums and plenty of ways to reach it! It's not like Scratch took away our privileges of discussion.

THIS IS MY SIGNATURE. THIS MEANS IT IS AN AUTOMATIC MESSAGE THAT APPEARS AT THE BOTTOM OF ALL MY POSTS.
Hi! I'm FancyFoxy! I create animations and games that were never, EVER meant to be taken seriously.
FancyFoxy Heroes and #Thanksgiving are some of my latest projects, check them out!

I-Iz-A-Litten

FancyFoxy wrote:
monstermash3 wrote:
But the problem is, New Scratchers might not know where to look. It's buried in the footer, so you basically have to have read the announcement topic or found another link to the forums (like the one on the Tips page) to know how to get to the forums.
Not necessarily.

Time to combine all my arguments against #Bring_it_back into one giant post!
-snip-

exactly

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bigpuppy

Yes. Plus, I don't think it's likely that the Scratch Team is going to change it back now. We really just have to get used to it

“Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right.” -Jane Goodall

VideoGamerCanInvent

Using the power of a Google Chrome extension I have gotten the Discuss button back, so I really don't care about Bring it Back as much as I did. But, really, they should just remove About once you obtain the Scratcher status and then add Discuss. Because I don't think I've ever used that section.

woah, haven't been on here in a while

KingOfAwesome58219

VideoGamerCanInvent wrote:
Using the power of a Google Chrome extension I have gotten the Discuss button back, so I really don't care about Bring it Back as much as I did. But, really, they should just remove About once you obtain the Scratcher status and then add Discuss. Because I don't think I've ever used that section.

About seems more like “logged out” section (like how stats display when “What's Happening” is when you're logged out) and discuss appears when you log in.

Galleigo

FancyFoxy wrote:
monstermash3 wrote:
But the problem is, New Scratchers might not know where to look. It's buried in the footer, so you basically have to have read the announcement topic or found another link to the forums (like the one on the Tips page) to know how to get to the forums.
Not necessarily.

Time to combine all my arguments against #Bring_it_back into one giant post!
snip

Create is not needed. I literally never used it in 19 months of using Scratch. There's this thing called *ahem* My Stuff > new project…
Explore is (usually) trash. Well, maybe other people think it's good… not me…
Tips? There's a tips bar that will open by default if you used Create to open the project editor. Even if you didn't use Create, you could just open it up on your own.
About is only useful once and never again. Maybe it will only be shown if you are logged out.

(Also, RIP help.)

My proposal is that we should remove “Tips” and “About” and change it to a button that changes depending on whether you're logged in or not.
Logged out - About.
New Scratcher - Tips
Regular Scratcher - Discuss

Seems good for me. This would also mean there would only be 3 buttons, meaning:
1) Buttons become bigger - “wasn't getting the clicks”.
2) Search bar becomes bigger.

And now, for the original poster…

How is this a suggestion?

Last edited by Galleigo (Aug. 1, 2017 07:36:57)

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Botcho_Otkho

FancyFoxy wrote:
Amen.

I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are. - Mewtwo

duckboycool

As most people have said, it's about New Scratchers finding it. After all, for those of us who like the discuss button, we can install something to bring it back. The same idea doesn't apply to people who don't know about it in the first place.

Also, FancyFox, how are create and tips more useful than discuss? Everybody already knows about the project editor, and the tips are in there too. Also, about really isn't useful to people who already are on the website.

Meanwhile, there are forums like Help with Scripts and Questions about Scratch, which are much more useful later. Also, most people don't know how to properly suggest projects to be featured since it's on the forums, so ST profiles are filled with requests for projects to be featured. There is just so much in the forums, that Scratchers do need to find out about it.

I used to be active on the forums, but I have mostly moved past Scratch. I still do check my Scratch messages, so if you'd like to talk to me, just leave a comment on my profile. My main project on Scratch was Cookie Clicker, but my newest project is Snake Snake, a game based off of Snake, but with two snakes, and you can play either singleplayer or multiplayer.

Charles12310

First of all, for those who say the Discuss button is in the Tips page, it's at the very bottom near the footer, so it won't be noticeable.

I suggest we put a section that links to the forums in the front page. My project, found on my profile to see what I mean (I'm not an editing expert, and I can't change the front page so well, so I just make it up).

However, since Scratch Team said they will not bring it back despite millions of demands, I feel like the choice was still wrong because New Scratchers don't know about forums. This is just going to harm them if they need to ask a question but there is no button. Footer won't help, nobody goes to the footer anyway.

A few internet communication companies want to corrupt the internet by getting rid of net neutrality. Stop Them!

Charles12310

Charles12310 wrote:
First of all, for those who say the Discuss button is in the Tips page, it's at the very bottom near the footer, so it won't be noticeable.

I suggest we put a section that links to the forums in the front page. My project, found on my profile to see what I mean (I'm not an editing expert, and I can't change the front page so well, so I just make it up).

However, since Scratch Team said they will not bring it back despite millions of demands, I feel like the choice was still wrong because New Scratchers don't know about forums. This is just going to harm them if they need to ask a question but there is no button. Footer won't help, nobody goes to the footer anyway.

However, good thing the wiki hasn't changed, so the discuss button is still there, but I'm also deciding a button that allows quick access to the Wiki. I'm sure it will work.

There should also be a section in the front page mentioning the wiki.

A few internet communication companies want to corrupt the internet by getting rid of net neutrality. Stop Them!

SuperiorSnivy

Adding the tips button was pointless, the forums are more useful, the ST should just remove the tips button.

Hello person exploring the forums, please stop for a minute to read this. Do you want a scrolling block like this? Type [code] and you will get one. I hope you enjoyed this advertisement.

LionHeart70

I'm kinda done with the discuss button stuff. I'm not kidding, I've seen a user comment “#bring_it_back” on a completely unrelated post before. This went way too far..
Not to mention I've seen users saying that the ST sucks because of this.

lh70 / nora/tobi / she-they pronouns / pansexual-demisexual / 14 / sagittarius / furry / artist / intp / stop-motion films / lbp / fall out boy / panic! at the disco / twenty one pilots / stranger things / a series of unfortunate events
“When you have a bad day, a really bad day, try and treat the world better than it treated you.” -Patrick Stump
“Music seems to hold everything together. It seems to make things not so chaotic sometimes. It seems to make things make more sense sometimes.” -Tyler Joseph
“You'll fear your fears forever if you never do things you're afraid of.” -Josh Dun
“I'm still figuring out who I am, but I know I'm not who I was.” -Brendon Urie

I-Iz-A-Litten

LionHeart70 wrote:
I'm kinda done with the discuss button stuff. I'm not kidding, I've seen a user comment “#bring_it_back” on a completely unrelated post before. This went way too far..
Not to mention I've seen users saying that the ST sucks because of this.

Wow, this HAS gone too far,

SuperiorSnivy wrote:
Adding the tips button was pointless, the forums are more useful, the ST should just remove the tips button.

Why would the ST add something pointless? Plus, Tips is used to help new Scratchers!

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LionHeart70

I-Iz-A-Litten wrote:
SuperiorSnivy wrote:
Adding the tips button was pointless, the forums are more useful, the ST should just remove the tips button.

Why would the ST add something pointless? Plus, Tips is used to help new Scratchers!

The thing is, don't we already have what's in the “tips” thing in the project tab?

lh70 / nora/tobi / she-they pronouns / pansexual-demisexual / 14 / sagittarius / furry / artist / intp / stop-motion films / lbp / fall out boy / panic! at the disco / twenty one pilots / stranger things / a series of unfortunate events
“When you have a bad day, a really bad day, try and treat the world better than it treated you.” -Patrick Stump
“Music seems to hold everything together. It seems to make things not so chaotic sometimes. It seems to make things make more sense sometimes.” -Tyler Joseph
“You'll fear your fears forever if you never do things you're afraid of.” -Josh Dun
“I'm still figuring out who I am, but I know I'm not who I was.” -Brendon Urie

I-Iz-A-Litten

LionHeart70 wrote:
I-Iz-A-Litten wrote:
SuperiorSnivy wrote:
Adding the tips button was pointless, the forums are more useful, the ST should just remove the tips button.

Why would the ST add something pointless? Plus, Tips is used to help new Scratchers!
The thing is, don't we already have what's in the “tips” thing in the project tab?

but TIPS gives links to helpful project ideas and printable cards saying how to do them, perfect for schools and summer camps

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-penandpaper-

LionHeart70 wrote:
I've seen users saying that the ST sucks because of this.

Woah, that's awful…

there's no place like index

why do Java programmers wear glasses? because they can't c#

LionHeart70

-penandpaper- wrote:
LionHeart70 wrote:
I've seen users saying that the ST sucks because of this.
Woah, that's awful…

I know.
It's gone too far.
I understand that it wasn't all that good of an idea for them to remove the discuss tab, but telling them that they suck? NO.

lh70 / nora/tobi / she-they pronouns / pansexual-demisexual / 14 / sagittarius / furry / artist / intp / stop-motion films / lbp / fall out boy / panic! at the disco / twenty one pilots / stranger things / a series of unfortunate events
“When you have a bad day, a really bad day, try and treat the world better than it treated you.” -Patrick Stump
“Music seems to hold everything together. It seems to make things not so chaotic sometimes. It seems to make things make more sense sometimes.” -Tyler Joseph
“You'll fear your fears forever if you never do things you're afraid of.” -Josh Dun
“I'm still figuring out who I am, but I know I'm not who I was.” -Brendon Urie

Discuss Scratch