Scratch is a powerful tool. Not in the sense of it being able to produce large scale projects, but it's an easy way to teach the foundations of code, which can be very difficult for some people.

Now, I'm not trying to argue that “Scratch shouldn't be for kids,” because getting kids to learn code is great. But if an adult wants to learn code, they'll either successfully learn, have trouble learning or give up, or see Scratch and discard it because it looks “too kiddy.”

In my spare time, I've been working with Scratch for this small game idea that I stole from Lachhh got and I've been having fun making it. Have I been making it on the website? Nope. I've always been using the offline editor to shy away from the website and stop telling myself that I'm just “making a game in a language for babies.”

I can understand that the “for kids” approach has definitely worked out well for the Scratch Team, but it has not worked out well for anyone else. I like the idea of a simple and clean programming language, but after they realized “hey, kids really like this stuff,” they started to milk the life out of it.

Scratch, you do you, but I am not a fan of the change from “for everyone” to “for mostly kids” to “for kids.”

Because of the offline editor and this invention that everyone seems unaware of called “books” that contain Scratch tutorials for anyone starting off. I'm not going to support this atm.

Just wondering; is this a suggestion, or more of complaint? Either way is fine (I think). Just curious.

Yeah, more of a complaint really. I'm just scared that Scratch is going to continue in the direction that they're going in. It's only getting more and more isolated.

The suggestions forum shouldn't just be a place for complaints, but this is somewhat a suggestion, so I think it could be fine.

I am going to have to disagree with you about the for kids only, and thusly no support this topic. Yes overall the website it designed to be easy and for kids, but if you don't like the atmosphere, you can move on to a different language, maybe something like SNAP!. There are also things like advanced topics and profile pages where you can talk to people more seriously. Overall, the only thing that is really kiddy is the design of blocks for coding, in which case you can be on the forums like I am.

I hope you consider the other side rather than having a fixed mindset on changing Scratch.

There's also a thread about this problem in the AT's forum - apparently what some people have found out is that the child-like design of Scratch turns kids away from it - they don't want to start out programming with Scratch because it looks too “babyish.”

The second problem this causes is that when kids do try Scratch and fail, they think they are absolutely terrible at programming, because they can't even succeed in what they perceive to not be a “real” programming language.

I think it might be worth considering how the design of Scratch could be changed so that it appeals primarily to a older audience - maybe an age range of like 8-13 in particular - people that have enough math experience to be able to use Scratch effectively, but likely not a lot of programming experience.

It also seems silly to have Scratch - especially Scratch 3.0 - look like a childish programming language, seeing as how we already have Scratch Jr, which is meant to serve that exact purpose.

You haven't actually said what is childish about Scratch. Is it just the visual style, and if so what would you change about it?

What exactly is the suggestion? If is a 13+ version of the website, that was rejected.

Is this a complaint, or a suggestion? If it's a complaint, then this doesn't belong in this forum.

If it's a suggestion, and you're suggesting a 13+ version of the website, that has been rejected.

I don't see how you've gotten this whole ‘isolated’ image. Scratch has been tailored for ‘everyone’ but primarily the younger generation.

Yet, you don't seem to see the people like @griffpatch or @DadOfMrLog who are adults that use Scratch and don't end up looking like idiots.

I think you shouldn't be afraid of going outside of your comfort zone. It really doesn't matter if someone else thinks “Oh wow you use a child language”, because you can prove to them it's for everyone.

Somebody at my school saw me use Scratch, and said “oh, yeah, I used that before, but it was so easy and you couldn't make anything complex, so I quit”. They didn't even know how to use Variables, or Operators, or Sensing… Or Custom Blocks… Or Pen… So, I just showed them one of the games I made, and they were impressed. Apparently, they didn't even know you could make your own sprites as they just chose from the sprite library. -.-
If somebody makes fun of you for using Scratch, you can just show them what you can actually do with the program itself. However, I do think that maybe the Scratch Team could make the website look a little bit more for adults (not by adding inappropriate content, but changing the background to be more grey, changing the blocks to be solid, darker colours with hard edges, etc.) to make it more appealing to kids. Trust me, kids will NOT want to use something that they consider “babyish”.

I'm slightly more to the support side on this suggestion.
The fact that people are more likely to choose something that looks appealing on the outside is total reality for literally everything, whether it's fair or not.
However, if they try it out and find it suitable, they'll definitely choose it.
The problem is, Scratch is kind of childish inside and out, and mostly catering to under 8's, despite claiming to be for 8-16 year olds.

However, it's much easier to handle if you just ignore the childish stuff, pretend that it's catered to your age group and therefore enjoy the website itself.

Fun fact:
The range of ages I got when I asked people the age group Scratch was: 7-10, 5-9, 7-12, 6-11, 3-8, 4-7, 10-14, 9-12, 6-9, 3-6, 4-11, 5-10

WolfCat67 wrote:

Somebody at my school saw me use Scratch, and said “oh, yeah, I used that before, but it was so easy and you couldn't make anything complex, so I quit”. They didn't even know how to use Variables, or Operators, or Sensing… Or Custom Blocks… Or Pen… So, I just showed them one of the games I made, and they were impressed. Apparently, they didn't even know you could make your own sprites as they just chose from the sprite library. -.-
If somebody makes fun of you for using Scratch, you can just show them what you can actually do with the program itself. However, I do think that maybe the Scratch Team could make the website look a little bit more for adults (not by adding inappropriate content, but changing the background to be more grey, changing the blocks to be solid, darker colours with hard edges, etc.) to make it more appealing to kids. Trust me, kids will NOT want to use something that they consider “babyish”.

Yeah - a lot of kids actually want to follow in the footsteps of adults, and so if something feels childish, they DEFINITELY won't use it.

dave4681 wrote:

I'm slightly more to the support side on this suggestion.
The fact that people are more likely to choose something that looks appealing on the outside is total reality for literally everything, whether it's fair or not.
However, if they try it out and find it suitable, they'll definitely choose it.
The problem is, Scratch is kind of childish inside and out, and mostly catering to under 8's, despite claiming to be for 8-16 year olds.

However, it's much easier to handle if you just ignore the childish stuff, pretend that it's catered to your age group and therefore enjoy the website itself.

Fun fact:
The range of ages I got when I asked people the age group Scratch was: 7-10, 5-9, 7-12, 6-11, 3-8, 4-7, 10-14, 9-12, 6-9, 3-6, 4-11, 5-10

Under 14's be real. I did when I was 13. Still it on it - I'm 15. Although I'm quitting in early 2018

I kind of skimmed everything, but how does this actually affect your programming ability? Griffpatch has shown Scratch is a very powerful tool. Many adults here are interested in how far it can go. There are some really talented/smart kids here, too.

How did they milk the life out of the fact that kids really like Scratch? (I guess they kind of have with like how they featured their own studios… but still.)

If you want something a bit different, check out this article.

The target audience is kids, it's just that it's now kids, tweens and teens as older people have joined. If it was too childish, these people wouldn't have come in the first place.

braxbroscratcher wrote:

WolfCat67 wrote:

Somebody at my school saw me use Scratch, and said “oh, yeah, I used that before, but it was so easy and you couldn't make anything complex, so I quit”. They didn't even know how to use Variables, or Operators, or Sensing… Or Custom Blocks… Or Pen… So, I just showed them one of the games I made, and they were impressed. Apparently, they didn't even know you could make your own sprites as they just chose from the sprite library. -.-
If somebody makes fun of you for using Scratch, you can just show them what you can actually do with the program itself. However, I do think that maybe the Scratch Team could make the website look a little bit more for adults (not by adding inappropriate content, but changing the background to be more grey, changing the blocks to be solid, darker colours with hard edges, etc.) to make it more appealing to kids. Trust me, kids will NOT want to use something that they consider “babyish”.

Yeah - a lot of kids actually want to follow in the footsteps of adults, and so if something feels childish, they DEFINITELY won't use it.

But they don't realize adults do like things straightforward and sometimes complex at the start, because they had experience.

So yes design is a factor, but it's catered for children because they can't learn from raw complicated gook from the get go.

Thelnvoker wrote:

Is this a complaint, or a suggestion? If it's a complaint, then this doesn't belong in this forum.

If it's a suggestion, and you're suggesting a 13+ version of the website, that has been rejected.

He/she is suggesting that the website is aimed at a wider audience. Not just children.

awesome5185 wrote:

Thelnvoker wrote:

Is this a complaint, or a suggestion? If it's a complaint, then this doesn't belong in this forum.

If it's a suggestion, and you're suggesting a 13+ version of the website, that has been rejected.

He/she is suggesting that the website is aimed at a wider audience. Not just children.

The website is already aimed at a large audience. The issue is the first glance nature, which I believe could be tweaked a bit.

What they mean by “large audience” doesn't mean to make it more complex, but rather remove most of the cartoon characters from the front page (but maybe keep them in the library and on the logo), change some of the colours, and maybe roughen up the edges of the Scratch blocks instead of being rounded. So, basically, stop the 3.0 design changes (as they make it EVEN MORE CHILDISH and have lots of unneeded padding). Doing so would make people take Scratch a bit more seriously at first glance instead of thinking “oh it has cartoons and looks like it's for babies, must be terrible”.