Which IDE do you use?

theonlygusti

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
theonlygusti wrote:
MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
Congratulations! You've wasted your time
There's a purpose to IDEs besides for you to be “disgusted” by
How? What does eclipse provide that is an absolute necessity to Android development? Why should I prefer it over VIM? I feel like I can do most things just as fast, if not faster, from my terminal than by using eclipse.
Eclipse has been obsoleted by Android Studio for Android development. And there's a reason Google makes Android Studio the recommended way to develop. With sophisticated automatic hotswapping, deploying complex changes takes seconds. Instant feedback on errors and lint warnings in Java and Android xml files is really helpful. There's also a graphical layout editor, integrated logcat, integrated git, and amazing autocomplete. If you're not using Android Studio or Eclipse for Android, you're legitimately wasting your time. Instead of complaining, just try it for a day. I guarantee you'll understand what I'm talking about.

I want to stop talking about this, but in VIM everything you listed also exists. Who knows, maybe Android Studio is amazing, but I feel no motivation to try it if my current system works and already implements all the “sophisticated” things people are telling me exist in their favourite IDEs.

Firedrake969

theonlygusti wrote:
MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
theonlygusti wrote:
MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
Congratulations! You've wasted your time
There's a purpose to IDEs besides for you to be “disgusted” by
How? What does eclipse provide that is an absolute necessity to Android development? Why should I prefer it over VIM? I feel like I can do most things just as fast, if not faster, from my terminal than by using eclipse.
Eclipse has been obsoleted by Android Studio for Android development. And there's a reason Google makes Android Studio the recommended way to develop. With sophisticated automatic hotswapping, deploying complex changes takes seconds. Instant feedback on errors and lint warnings in Java and Android xml files is really helpful. There's also a graphical layout editor, integrated logcat, integrated git, and amazing autocomplete. If you're not using Android Studio or Eclipse for Android, you're legitimately wasting your time. Instead of complaining, just try it for a day. I guarantee you'll understand what I'm talking about.
I want to stop talking about this, but in VIM everything you listed also exists. Who knows, maybe Android Studio is amazing, but I feel no motivation to try it if my current system works and already implements all the “sophisticated” things people are telling me exist in their favourite IDEs.

The same can be said for anyone else's system over VIM, then - it works and implements what's needed.

That said, just because you prefer one system doesn't mean other systems are “disgusting”.

Last edited by Firedrake969 (Dec. 23, 2016 17:59:50)

MegaApuTurkUltra

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
Instant feedback on errors and lint warnings in Java and Android xml files

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
graphical layout editor

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
integrated logcat

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
amazing autocomplete

theonlygusti wrote:
in VIM everything you listed also exists

Wow, vim seems much cooler than I expected! Please show me where to find the above features in vim. I want to try it out

Unlike someone, I am perfectly willing to try a new system for a day. But unlike Android Studio, which works out of the box, I think I'll need help setting up vim

Last edited by MegaApuTurkUltra (Dec. 23, 2016 18:27:51)

nanalan

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
I think I'll need help setting up vim

1. Install *nix
2. Open up Terminal and run `vim`

-stache-

nanalan wrote:
MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
I think I'll need help setting up vim

1. Install *nix
2. Open up Terminal and run `vim`

I believe he means installing extensions/plugins/color-schemes…

theonlygusti

nanalan wrote:
MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
I think I'll need help setting up vim

1. Install *nix
2. Open up Terminal and run `vim`

No, to get the requested features, it's more complex than that.

I've installed pathogen as my plugin manager, then installing new plugins becomes as trivial as git clone plugin-repo. Using plugins anything is possible.

You can literally just google for the plugin you need, and install it. E.g. start with things like powerline/airline, autocorrectors, linters, etc.

Also, you'd probably want to vimtutor as well, and use the example vimrc file and start adding things to that.

theonlygusti

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
Unlike someone, I am perfectly willing to try a new system for a day.

I find that very unfair. You are being childish. I have tried numerous IDEs in the past, and while at the time I thought them brilliant, none of them compare to my experience with VIM + command line today.

I would and do swap out systems for newer better ones, and in most cases am willing to test for a couple weeks to see which I prefer. For example, just today I completely overthrew the way I schedule and plan my productivity. Over the last couple months I have tried two note-taking apps, three task/checklist recorders, four (human, not programming

) language-learning websites, and three software calendars, because I feel motivated to improve my scheduling and productivity.

However, I feel uncomfortable installing what seems to me - at the moment - to just be bloatware attempting to accomplish something I can already do very efficiently. Maybe, in the end, Android Studio would have been a brilliant choice for me - you obviously seem to like it, and I really respect you as someone who knows what they're talking about - but it wouldn't fit into the rest of my workflow very nicely, and besides, developing Android apps is nowhere near the top of the list of my priorities right now.

WooHooBoy

I generally use Atom but I use IDEA for some java here and there

in Atom i just use One Dark and Office Code Pro, along with *way too many* plugins.

theonlygusti

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
Instant feedback on errors and lint warnings in Java and Android xml files

Any half-decent vim linter, of which there are hundreds already out there, many of which are freely extendable. If you can't find any that suit your needs (which I doubt would be the case), you can always create your own.

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
graphical layout editor

Ok, this one I didn't notice the first time I was reading your post. Sure, VIM itself can't do this, it's based in a terminal. You can interface it with any number of other programs that do this though if you really wanted to. As a dev though, I don't really care about layout. This is up to graphical and ux designers.

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
integrated logcat

logcat is a cli. Writing your own implementation for VIM is therefore trivial, however, luckily there exists a multitude of plugins already out there for this.

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:
amazing autocomplete

Yeah, there are hundreds. Maybe even thousands. YouCompleteMe is pretty good all-round, vim-android also offers very intelligent Android-specific autocomplete.

Sigton

theonlygusti wrote:
If you can't find any that suit your needs (which I doubt would be the case), you can always create your own.

Which you wouldn't need to using a dedicated IDE.

Sigton

BookOwl

Nano is also pretty nice for basic text editing.

theonlygusti

Sigton wrote:
theonlygusti wrote:
If you can't find any that suit your needs (which I doubt would be the case), you can always create your own.
Which you wouldn't need to using a dedicated IDE.

Sigton

Which you do actually sometimes need to do in a dedicated IDE

This for me is what separates VIM users from IDE users; I feel that we understand that nothing is ever perfect and are always open to improvement and customisation to better suit our own needs, whereas IDE folk just say “that's the way it is, it kinda works, let's not touch it.”

And, by your definition of “wouldn't”, apparently you would also never have to do this in VIM, because they all already exist.

Last edited by theonlygusti (Dec. 23, 2016 19:36:15)

MegaApuTurkUltra

theonlygusti wrote:
This for me is what separates VIM users from IDE users; I feel that we understand that nothing is ever perfect and are always open to improvement and customisation to better suit our own needs, whereas IDE folk just say “that's the way it is, it kinda works, let's not touch it.”

I'll point out that nothing stops you from writing IDE plugins. IDEs like Eclipse are built on a community of plugin developers
Maybe the bigger difference is whether you prefer to use a mouse or a keyboard for navigating things

Last edited by MegaApuTurkUltra (Dec. 23, 2016 20:22:24)

Firedrake969

theonlygusti wrote:
Yeah, there are hundreds. Maybe even thousands. YouCompleteMe is pretty good all-round, vim-android also offers very intelligent Android-specific autocomplete.

https://xkcd.com/927/

theonlygusti wrote:
I find that very unfair. You are being childish. I have tried numerous IDEs in the past, and while at the time I thought them brilliant, none of them compare to my experience with VIM + command line today.

Maybe you didn't use them to their full potential - just as you're arguing we aren't with vim.

Also, maybe he is being childish - but I'll also point out that you were being childish by pointing out other people's preferred development environments as “disgusting” just because you prefer what you use.

Essentially, your argument is that you can do the same thing with vim that you can do with any IDE; however, that means that vim is equal to and not greater than the other IDEs - especially if you consider the fact that you have to customize it, as opposed to downloading a specific IDE designed especially for a specific purpose that does not require any significant setup time to get working.

Last edited by Firedrake969 (Dec. 23, 2016 20:21:19)

theonlygusti

Firedrake969 wrote:
theonlygusti wrote:
Yeah, there are hundreds. Maybe even thousands. YouCompleteMe is pretty good all-round, vim-android also offers very intelligent Android-specific autocomplete.

https://xkcd.com/927/

That doesn't apply here…

I'll also point out that you were being childish by pointing out other people's preferred development environments as “disgusting” just because you prefer what you use.

Honestly, at the time I didn't realise other people would get so triggered over it. I found StackMasher's first response absolutely hilarious, “ides are for scrubs.” My saying IDEs are disgusting is my opinion: why install so many different bloatware programs when you can accomplish everything from within your lightning-fast pre-installed terminal?

Essentially, your argument is that you can do the same thing with vim that you can do with any IDE; however, that means that vim is equal to and not greater than the other IDEs

Ok, even if VIM were equal to IDEs, why use the IDEs then? Sure, faster setup time… good joke. Couple git clones and you're good to go in VIM, whereas an IDE can take hours to download, maybe a couple more to install… maybe slight exaggeration, but I myself find the process of installing an IDE much more painful than installing VIM plugins.

And I would argue that VIM is greater than an IDE; they aren't really comparable, VIM is meant to be a text editor, an IDE is, well, an IDE. However, the fact that you can take a thousand-language text editor and use it as an IDE shows how much more powerful it is than the platform-specific IDEs you guys seem to be favouring.

And then going the other way? Dumbing your hulking mass of superfluous functionality and ridiculous features down into a text editor for any language of your choice? Well, if you're lucky, it'll let you work on something other than what it was designed for. If you're luckier, it'll have syntax highlighting for that language built in. But no way does it let you get the productivity and speed you can get with VIM.

TheMonsterOfTheDeep

Why is everybody arguing? There really is no objectively correct answer to “what's better for developing code: a text editor or an IDE?”

Sigton

theonlygusti wrote:
Ok, even if VIM were equal to IDEs, why use the IDEs then? Sure, faster setup time… good joke. Couple git clones and you're good to go in VIM, whereas an IDE can take hours to download, maybe a couple more to install…

The PyCharm installer is 160MB or so, which running at 3mbps would take 3 minutes. Even at slower speeds it will only take 10 minutes at most. To install, it took me maybe 30 seconds. That is a lot less than a few hours, plus a couple more to install.

Sigton

theonlygusti

TheMonsterOfTheDeep wrote:
Why is everybody arguing? There really is no objectively correct answer to “what's better for developing code: a text editor or an IDE?”

Sigton

theonlygusti wrote:
TheMonsterOfTheDeep wrote:
Why is everybody arguing? There really is no objectively correct answer to “what's better for developing code: a text editor or an IDE?”

Hey, you're arguing as much as anybody else.

Sigton

BookOwl

Sigton wrote:
theonlygusti wrote:
Ok, even if VIM were equal to IDEs, why use the IDEs then? Sure, faster setup time… good joke. Couple git clones and you're good to go in VIM, whereas an IDE can take hours to download, maybe a couple more to install…
The PyCharm installer is 160MB or so, which running at 3mbps would take 3 minutes. Even at slower speeds it will only take 10 minutes at most. To install, it took me maybe 30 seconds. That is a lot less than a few hours, plus a couple more to install.

Sigton

Maybe PyCharm is smaller than most IDEs. Visual Studio took hours to download and install.

The main reason that I don't use an IDE is that there isn't one for Rust, my favorite language, and Atom has worked great for everything I've done.

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