I don't just mean posts that are just ‘support/no support’, I mean discourage people placing “support” or “no support in their posts (or tallying up support in topic titles)

In the end, it is the ST's decision to add a suggestion, so whether or not the community supports means nothing. I think when people put ”100% support“ in their titles it's a kind of clickbait. It has to be a good decision since it has so much support right? Not so much. Donald Trump has a lot of support. Does that mean he should be our president?

I think when people make their arguments for why they support or not should speak for itself and it's a repetitive thing to put ‘no support’ below your argument. This isn't an essay, you don't need to restate your thesis in your conclusion.

So what I'm suggesting is that Scratch Team discourages people putting ”support“ or ”no support" + discouraging including support counts in your topic title or opening post.

I'm very tempted to start my post with “Support.” xD
This will also allow people to post the pros and cons of the suggestion without having to worry about weakening their claim.

The support counts seem quite useless and the numbers don't seem quite right since you can't count supporters (i.e. how many supports is a semi-support; how about an indifference?) and quality>quantity.
Supporter lists aren't that bad, but they often include supports and no supports that have no reasoning and they end up getting really long and when they get quoted it starts getting spammy.

Maybe we can try to discourage using “support” to state our claim and instead try to rephrase it so that people who come to the suggestions forum won't see support and no support as a thumbs up/down button for a suggestion.

No support.

Eh, I'm indifferent.

I think the support and no support things help if people give specific reasoning and don't say things like “no support, this is unnecessary”. However, I do agree that titles saying like “200+ supporters” are sorta clickbait

It'd be impossible to remove all of the aliases of (no) support

Sigton

People should be allowed to say “support” or “no support”, they should just provide reasons. If you said this instead of support:

+1

That would be even more unconstructive!

However I do think putting a supporter count is clickbait.

I'm 50/50 on this one. The support/no support trend does help when I want to tell people what I'm thinking right at the start of the post, but if we didn't
have it people would have to explain their reasons a lot more. But again on the other hand loads of scratchers don't read the stickies, so some people
would keep doing it.

“Support” is a good way to end your posts.
Now choose. Would it be weird if I didn't summarize my opinion at the end?





lol get it it's weird

the2000 wrote:

“Support” is a good way to end your posts.
Now choose. Would it be weird if I didn't summarize my opinion at the end?





lol get it it's weird

“I support this suggestion” would be better ending that “support” because when you put “support” it's like you think it has an effect on the potential implementation of the suggestion. We're here to discuss if something is an objectively good suggestion, not vote and tally if it is a subjectively good suggestion.

-1
See, I didn't say “support” or “no support”, I used numbers! xD

How much it matters; 75% ST, 25% community. Unlike what you think, which is 100% ST and 0% community.

LP_Play wrote:

-1
See, I didn't say “support” or “no support”, I used numbers! xD

How much it matters; 75% ST, 25% community. Unlike what you think, which is 100% ST and 0% community.

Do you have a source for this percentage?

What is the alternative for not using “Support” or “No Support”?

Comic

_Comicfan_ wrote:

What is the alternative for not using “Support” or “No Support”?

Comic

Forming it so people know your support is just a personal view and not a vote. It doesn't mean they're suggestion will get added because a lot of people support it.

I think that the problem is that it is no other way to simply voice your opinion on a suggestion, whether you have new reasoning or information or not. The Scratch community established this “support”/“no support” custom to sort of standardize the “voting”. Also, vast approval from users does matter to some extent. This is why having a voting system that doesn't require posting has been suggested. It would remove unconstructive posts and give a way to track what most of the community wants.

I do wish something would change. 10+ people repeating “no support” with the same reasons as each other or with no reasons at all at one topic owner is a great way to make someone feel ganged up on and hurt their feelings. The number of unconstructive posts makes following a topic pointless. Don't forget that the suggestions forums are also for improving existing suggestions, making it more likely for the ST to add, not just appraising them or shooting them down.

I have to wholy agree and the most efficient solution is just to stop saying it. I made a post covering this and that died down, I'm going to help you keep this one active because I truly believe that support/no support is spam, un-constructive, and creates bad habits in other arguments.

Using such to harbor your argument really makes you seem “un-professional”. Scratch should promote the creation of original arguments and imply agreement.

LP_Play wrote:

-1
See, I didn't say “support” or “no support”, I used numbers! xD

How much it matters; 75% ST, 25% community. Unlike what you think, which is 100% ST and 0% community.

And so come the people who cannot give proper reasons to non-supporting. All of your data is subjective without proof, and to be honest with you I think it has to do with the education of Scratch users.

LP_Play wrote:

-1
See, I didn't say “support” or “no support”, I used numbers! xD

How much it matters; 75% ST, 25% community. Unlike what you think, which is 100% ST and 0% community.

What does -1 mean? Don't quantify supporters since quality > quantity.

VoltageGames wrote:

LP_Play wrote:

-1
See, I didn't say “support” or “no support”, I used numbers! xD

How much it matters; 75% ST, 25% community. Unlike what you think, which is 100% ST and 0% community.

Do you have a source for this percentage?

Yes, the community is my source.

I think it's possible to start a new trend with not saying any support thing, since people new to the forums tend to mimic the habits of everyone else. If we can get all of the active forum users to switch to that, then we could possibly get this going ourselves without the ST having to intervene. The effects could even be more profound.

Now the question is, will people want to do this? Probably not. Which poses a problem.

LP_Play wrote:

VoltageGames wrote:

LP_Play wrote:

-1
See, I didn't say “support” or “no support”, I used numbers! xD

How much it matters; 75% ST, 25% community. Unlike what you think, which is 100% ST and 0% community.

Do you have a source for this percentage?

Yes, the community is my source.

The community is not a valid source. The community opinion is very subjective and what you're stating is clearly not true.

1. Nothing is definitively 100%.
2. You would have to show a true poll of the community to prove any of your data.

MathlyCat wrote:

The community is not a valid source. The community opinion is very subjective and what you're stating is clearly not true.

1. Nothing is definitively 100%.
2. You would have to show a true poll of the community to prove any of your data.

I don't even understand what the ‘statistics’ are showing

Sigton