https://developers.google.com/blockly/guides/app-integration/best-practices

Having no inside bottom connector and nesting the statement's bottom connector (Scratch) appears to combine the worst discoverability attributes of both issues.

Novice programmers do not expect that location_X and location_x are different variables. As a result, Blockly follows the lead of BASIC and HTML by making variables and functions case-insensitive. By contrast, Scratch (as seen to the right) is case-sensitive.

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

Unrelated, but my favorite:

Students won't read unless you force them.

comp09 wrote:

https://developers.google.com/blockly/guides/app-integration/best-practices

Having no inside bottom connector and nesting the statement's bottom connector (Scratch) appears to combine the worst discoverability attributes of both issues.

Novice programmers do not expect that location_X and location_x are different variables. As a result, Blockly follows the lead of BASIC and HTML by making variables and functions case-insensitive. By contrast, Scratch (as seen to the right) is case-sensitive.

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

The only way to win is not to play.

Both languages have major faults. If you get into a flame war you'll both lose.

Mind you, Google will lose worse because they've taken one of these two appalling languages and actually converted it into hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi9lpZUGvZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuRTS35ouTs

G

BASIC was case insensitive because it would take up too much memory otherwise, not because someone thought it might be more intuitive.

It's only going to set people up for confusion when they learn a new language.

I feel these kinds of discussions are better suited to the (link to inappropriate site removed by moderator - please keep it safe for all Scratchers) reddit… Just saying…

novice27b wrote:

BASIC was case insensitive because it would take up too much memory otherwise, not because someone thought it might be more intuitive.

That doesn't make sense… Unless it used some weird character encoding that didn't distinguish case.

'C'-shaped blocks invariably have a connector on the inside-top, but some environments also have a connector on the inside bottom (e.g. Wonder Workshop) whereas others do not (e.g. Blockly and Scratch). Since most statement blocks have both a top and bottom connector, some users do not immediately see that statements will fit inside a ‘C’ that does not have a bottom connector.

Why is Blockly criticizing Blockly?????

Novice programmers do not expect that location_X and location_x are different variables. As a result, Blockly follows the lead of BASIC and HTML by making variables and functions case-insensitive. By contrast, Scratch (as seen to the right) is case-sensitive.

For a graphical language it doesn't make much of a difference because you only type the name of the variable once, and then you just make copies of it.

Blockly Games is specifically designed to be self-teaching, no teacher or lesson plan needed. To accomplish this, the first version of Blockly Games had instructions on each level. Students would not read them. We reduced them to a single sentence, increased the font size, and highlighted them in a yellow bubble. Students would not read them. We created modal popups with the instructions. Students instinctively closed the popups without reading them, then were lost.

Seriously?!? Let them get lost.

Novice programmers do not expect that location_X and location_x are different variables. As a result, Blockly follows the lead of BASIC and HTML by making variables and functions case-insensitive. By contrast, Scratch (as seen to the right) is case-sensitive.

Uh… Sorry, but has anyone hailed BASiC as a very good procedural language?

Also, why do they use HTML, a language which isn't really for scripting, as a reference point for variables and functions?

Blockly has to keep in mind that Scratch is for beginners. Blockly, please remember that Scratch only teaches the concept of coding.

f1lip wrote:

Blockly has to keep in mind that Scratch is for beginners. Blockly, please remember that Scratch only teaches the concept of coding.

Blockly is for beginners too

It is Scratch-like

I love how they criticize scratch for making it hard to tell if multiple blocks can fit. That is something that will take you about 3 seconds to learn.

f1lip wrote:

Blockly has to keep in mind that Scratch is for beginners. Blockly, please remember that Scratch only teaches the concept of coding.

Blockly is targetted at beginner-ishes too.

Novice programmers do not expect that location_X and location_x are different variables.]

Yeah they do, because they form different blocks in the Variables pane. In the example Google gives I think it's more of a font issue than a real issue with the variables themselves because the Xs look similar in that font. (I don't think young people will get as confused about case-sensitivity as more experienced people anyways)

—

About cblocks - Blockly's “gap” is ugly and sloppy, and I hope it never makes it's way into Scratch 3. I do agree that Scratch's handling of the bottom connector of cblocks is wrong (form over function), but I doubt people actually think “This cblock can only fit one block inside of it” right?

The way the cblock is just barely too small to fit one block, then expands a couple pixels when you add one block to it, reinforces that cblocks can expand and contract to fit the stack inside of it, which is a pattern Scratch gets right but Blockly misses because its cblocks are exactly as tall as a stack block.

—

As can be seen in the screenshots above, the first layout performs poorly on wide screens since the user's code and the output visualization are separated.

Oh come on now. Of course they're separated, and they're separated just as much in the “superior” second example too. What, do you want to semitransparently overlay the code on the stage?

I think 1.4's order is the best, as it flows logically in reading order - blocks pallete > scripting area > stage. You go from left to right. In Scratch 2 the stage is the first thing in reading order, but it's not the first thing you need to use. (And I think the best way to do this is in Snap, where you can change the width of the stage to fit your screen or your scripts.)

—

Jonathan50 wrote:

Why is Blockly criticizing Blockly?????

Google wrote:

The following are a collection of mistakes we have made, or mistakes commonly made by others.

scratchisthebest wrote:

Jonathan50 wrote:

Why is Blockly criticizing Blockly?????

Google wrote:

The following are a collection of mistakes we have made, or mistakes commonly made by others.

To improve?

Of course

I think the mistakes they list from blockly were from an old version so that they can make the new version better

Was this document written by someone who was banned from Scratch and now they're feeling edgy?

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

Seems kind of hypocritical. Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Blockly experience, either

birdoftheday wrote:

Was this document written by someone who was banned from Scratch and now they're feeling edgy?

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

Seems kind of hypocritical. Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Blockly experience, either

^^^

When posting this link, I thought this would cause an interesting and heated discussion. Success!

birdoftheday wrote:

Was this document written by someone who was banned from Scratch and now they're feeling edgy?

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

Seems kind of hypocritical. Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Blockly experience, either

Read the whole paragraph (under the heading “Exit Strategy”):

Block-based programming is often a starting point for programming. In the context of teaching computer programming, it is a gateway drug that gets students addicted, before moving them on to harder things. Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience. How long this block-based programming period should last for students is hotly debated, but that it is temporary is not debated.

(They just used Scratch as an example, it applies to any block-based language)

birdoftheday wrote:

Was this document written by someone who was banned from Scratch and now they're feeling edgy?

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

Seems kind of hypocritical. Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Blockly experience, either

Do you think one of the Blockly team members is actually Kaj? :OOOO

birdoftheday wrote:

Was this document written by someone who was banned from Scratch and now they're feeling edgy?

Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Scratch experience.

Seems kind of hypocritical. Nobody ever got a job because they had three years of Blockly experience, either

I'm kind of starting to not like the idea of scratch working with google…