This discussion has mostly been cleared up

Two Proposals


The Love Button gets removed

and

People cannot view their followers or follow count anymore (the followers bar removed)


Your looking at me funny. Hear me out .

The Scratch Team wants to undermine that value of fame. They don't want fame to be the thing that scratcher's care about. They feel that it takes away from the purpose of scratch, which is to promote education and programming. You don't believe me? Just look at the wiki pages about it.

Why should we have a love button then, as it provides no other purpose besides promoting fame?

Why should we allow people to view their followers, as that only promotes fame. The original purpose of the follow button, bookmarking scratchers you like, would be preserved, but the fame aspect would be taken out.


So why shouldn't the ST take these features away to promote the values of scratch?



On a side note, I'd also like to see what the community thinks about having articles/pages about scratchers/ scratcher's collaborations & shops (not just those sponsored by the ST) on the scratch wiki . Thanks ! Being comprehensive is better !

“Why should we be allowed to show some support to project creators?”

I do not support. The love-it is more than just “promoting fame”.

Rachyl wrote:

“Why should we be allowed to show some support to project creators?”

I do not support. The love-it is more than just “promoting fame”.

It does promote popularity and fame though.

Saying that it gives support could be your argument, but then again people could still comment nice things onto your project, thereby rendering the love-it button useless.

Support, though I think follows should be renamed to “receive updates from …” (user, discussion, studio, etc.)

Comments can be used to signify that you like a project, and it also provides constructive feedback.

No support. Statistics aren't a bad thing.

Sheep_maker wrote:

Support, though I think follows should be renamed to “receive updates from …” (user, discussion, studio, etc.)

Comments can be used to signify that you like a project, and it also provides constructive feedback.

Exactly !

Gaza101 wrote:

No support. Statistics aren't a bad thing.

Then you didn't read the post. The ST considers such measures of popularity bad.

makethebrainhappy wrote:

Rachyl wrote:

“Why should we be allowed to show some support to project creators?”

I do not support. The love-it is more than just “promoting fame”.

It does promote popularity and fame though.

But that's not the only thing it promotes, as opposed to what you said:

Why should we have a love button then, as it provides no other purpose besides promoting fame?

NoxSpooth wrote:

makethebrainhappy wrote:

Rachyl wrote:

“Why should we be allowed to show some support to project creators?”

I do not support. The love-it is more than just “promoting fame”.

It does promote popularity and fame though.

But that's not the only thing it promotes, as opposed to what you said:

Why should we have a love button then, as it provides no other purpose besides promoting fame?

Then name another purpose. Because I don't see any. Just because you say it doesn't make it true

No support, they are used to see how much praise the user and project received. They are not really a problem, believe me, competing for fame is very common on the Internet. Even in the ancient times, humans competed for land and stuff!

makethebrainhappy wrote:

Then name another purpose. Because I don't see any. Just because you say it doesn't make it true

-Showing support to the project creator;
-Letting others know about the project through the What's Happening feed;
-Possibly leading the project to the front page, so that even more people can view the project you enjoyed.

If you think there's some sort of the problem with the projects that are being frontpaged nowadays, I recommend you to complain at the community, rather than attempting to change the structure of the website.

No support for removing the love button, as it does more than to promote fame- it helps to show others that the project is good (either by it showing up in your follower's feed, or possibly getting it front-paged), and to support the creator. Semi-support for removing followers. I can't come up with a good argument to not remove it, but I just feel like removing it would be weird.

U^ｪ^U::motion//This is Blocky. He lives in my signature. He is a trained attack block. He protects my siggy from kumquats.

Nobody has answered my second question yet . Interesting

PrincessPanda_test_ wrote:

No support, they are used to see how much praise the user and project received. They are not really a problem, believe me, competing for fame is very common on the Internet. Even in the ancient times, humans competed for land and stuff!

Does no one read the post?

“The Scratch Team wants to undermine that value of fame. They don't want fame to be the thing that scratcher's care about. They feel that it takes away from the purpose of scratch, which is to promote education and programming. You don't believe me? Just look at the wiki pages about it.

Why should we have a love button then, as it provides no other purpose besides promoting fame?

Why should we allow people to view their followers, as that only promotes fame. The original purpose of the follow button, bookmarking scratchers you like, would be preserved, but the fame aspect would be taken out.”

Tell me why these aren't effective solutions to a problem that the ST wants to eliminate. Don't tell me that fame is fine and that I'm stupid. It's not my view, it's the view of the Scratch Team. I know that there's competition everywhere. They believe though that the fame takes away from the true purpose of scratch. So why aren't these effective solutions.

“Even in the ancient times, humans competed for land and stuff!”

I'm sure that sentence will appear in your history essay .

NoxSpooth wrote:

makethebrainhappy wrote:

Then name another purpose. Because I don't see any. Just because you say it doesn't make it true

-Showing support to the project creator; Can be done in a better way with better feedback through comments, rendering this point useless
-Letting others know about the project through the What's Happening feed; Can easily be replaced by the favorite button. The favorite button actually serves a purpose, although I would argue that favorite counts should go away
-Possibly leading the project to the front page, so that even more people can view the project you enjoyed. Exactly what the ST doesn't want you to be concerned about. Promoting = Fame

If you think there's some sort of the problem with the projects that are being frontpaged nowadays, I recommend you to complain at the community, rather than attempting to change the structure of the website.

Actually it's the Scratch Teams problem

The popularity bars should also be removed, as those would be a step in the right direction. But they may not have to be removed entirely if you take away follower counts and loves.

DaSpudLord wrote:

No support for removing the love button, as it does more than to promote fame- it helps to show others that the project is good (either by it showing up in your follower's feed, or possibly getting it front-paged), and to support the creator. Semi-support for removing followers. I can't come up with a good argument to not remove it, but I just feel like removing it would be weird.

What I said in the post above ^

“Semi-support for removing followers. I can't come up with a good argument to not remove it, but I just feel like removing it would be weird” *chuckles*

makethebrainhappy wrote:

PrincessPanda_test_ wrote:

No support, they are used to see how much praise the user and project received. They are not really a problem, believe me, competing for fame is very common on the Internet. Even in the ancient times, humans competed for land and stuff!

Does no one read the post?

“The Scratch Team wants to undermine that value of fame. They don't want fame to be the thing that scratcher's care about. They feel that it takes away from the purpose of scratch, which is to promote education and programming. You don't believe me? Just look at the wiki pages about it.

Why should we have a love button then, as it provides no other purpose besides promoting fame?

Why should we allow people to view their followers, as that only promotes fame. The original purpose of the follow button, bookmarking scratchers you like, would be preserved, but the fame aspect would be taken out.”

Tell me why these aren't effective solutions to a problem that the ST wants to eliminate. Don't tell me that fame is fine and that I'm stupid. It's not my view, it's the view of the Scratch Team. I know that there's competition everywhere. They believe though that the fame takes away from the true purpose of scratch. So why aren't these effective solutions.

“Even in the ancient times, humans competed for land and stuff!”

I'm sure that sentence will appear in your history essay .

1. Loves are an easy measure of how good the project is. Besides, if we remove that, then people will just start favoriting instead So now we're going to have to remove favoriting too even though there's another purpose to it (namely, saving projects you want to play later)?
2. What's wrong with people looking at their own followers' profiles? Doesn't that give more support to the people who follow them should the person being followed find a nice project by one of their followers?
3. If you meant people looking at other people's followers, there's nothing wrong with that either; in fact, it gives them more recognition if the person happens to want to find some projects. I will support making the follower count private, though, so you can see it but others can't.
4. People shouldn't get so desperate for fame that they count other people's followers

And as to your side note, we'd need a lot of space to put in all 10 million users into that wiki. And we can't exactly draw a line between who gets on and who doesn't. So I'd rather that not happen (even though I'm not on the wiki).

Reading through all the posts here.. if we remove all the things as you suggested, Scratch would be frankly a dark pit for me where I could create a project and never know if anybody actually cared about or liked it. I mean, sure, comments, but still – without being able to see my followers, I'm all alone, without being able to see how many people have loved my project, my motivation to continue with Scratch is further reduced.

I don't mean to be so negative, but really no support.

makethebrainhappy wrote:

NoxSpooth wrote:

makethebrainhappy wrote:

Then name another purpose. Because I don't see any. Just because you say it doesn't make it true

-Showing support to the project creator; Can be done in a better way with better feedback through comments, rendering this point useless
-Letting others know about the project through the What's Happening feed; Can easily be replaced by the favorite button. The favorite button actually serves a purpose, although I would argue that favorite counts should go away
-Possibly leading the project to the front page, so that even more people can view the project you enjoyed. Exactly what the ST doesn't want you to be concerned about. Promoting = Fame

If you think there's some sort of the problem with the projects that are being frontpaged nowadays, I recommend you to complain at the community, rather than attempting to change the structure of the website.

Actually it's the Scratch Teams problem

The popularity bars should also be removed, as those would be a step in the right direction. But they may not have to be removed entirely if you take away follower counts and loves.

If that were the case, people would then start to measure fame through comments and/or favorites.

Ask them to remove the front page then, if you feel that any sort of feedback is harmful to the community.

… Or how about we remove the entire community?! Is this what you want? I hope not.

makethebrainhappy wrote:

NoxSpooth wrote:

makethebrainhappy wrote:

Then name another purpose. Because I don't see any. Just because you say it doesn't make it true

-Showing support to the project creator; Can be done in a better way with better feedback through comments, rendering this point useless
-Letting others know about the project through the What's Happening feed; Can easily be replaced by the favorite button. The favorite button actually serves a purpose, although I would argue that favorite counts should go away
-Possibly leading the project to the front page, so that even more people can view the project you enjoyed. Exactly what the ST doesn't want you to be concerned about. Promoting = Fame

If you think there's some sort of the problem with the projects that are being frontpaged nowadays, I recommend you to complain at the community, rather than attempting to change the structure of the website.

Actually it's the Scratch Teams problem

The popularity bars should also be removed, as those would be a step in the right direction. But they may not have to be removed entirely if you take away follower counts and loves.

Part of sharing means that some things will be viewed/enjoyed more than others. Period. It's not something you can get around without taking away the community aspect in general.

No support. The ‘love’ button is encouraging for new scratchers and makes them want to stay on scratch.