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84375 wrote:

Hey there! I'm really sorry to potentially ruin all of the hard work that you've been putting into this project, but I believe that this may run into a problem with the Scratch Team. The million dollar question: is the final product going to be in a Scratch project?
yes, but I don't understand how that question could affect the project in either situation.

84375

Ok, well, here's the thing. As far as I'm concerned, I think the problem with having it on Scratch is that, with shareable drawings, people can draw and share anything, unless you are also developing some sort of high-tech image scanner/filter. The issue with this (which I've seen projects unshared for before) is that people could use it to write and share personal information, bad words, and obscene pictures with whoever is on the other side. I'm not the Scratch Team, but I believe that's what their judgement is with these kinds of things. It happened that a Multiplayer Minecraft was unshared (I'm only speculating here) because you could use blocks to form words and symbols that other Scratchers could see.

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84375 wrote:

Ok, well, here's the thing. As far as I'm concerned, I think the problem with having it on Scratch is that, with shareable drawings, people can draw and share anything, unless you are also developing some sort of high-tech image scanner/filter. The issue with this (which I've seen projects unshared for before) is that people could use it to write and share personal information, bad words, and obscene pictures with whoever is on the other side. I'm not the Scratch Team, but I believe that's what their judgement is with these kinds of things. It happened that a Multiplayer Minecraft was unshared (I'm only speculating here) because you could use blocks to form words and symbols that other Scratchers could see.
It isn't cloud, you have to post a code in the forums. I think I'm going to add a moderation thingy though, where in order to get a save code, you have to request one and I'll comment on the person's profile with the save code. Of course, it would be bypass-able, but it isn't like this project will get any views anyways

84375

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.

TheGlassPenguin

84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
We're going to use save codes.

84375

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
We're going to use save codes.

Save codes use cloud, just saying. But I would ask the Scratch Team whether this will be ok if certain parameters are met.

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84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
It's save codes with a topic.


Luckily, there's a filter for any text that doesn't require a blacklist, which is google translate since it blocks out anything that you write inappropriately. Then if they do make anything bad I can make a blacklist with their name, that would give them access to the project, but not the codes.

In case you were wondering, no - they can't remove their name from the list because you loose access to cloud once you go inside the project to prevent cheating.

Maybe you could help make a scanner? I have an Idea for one that filters out any letters, and then looks and sees if you can make anything bad with the text, but maybe you could help

TheGlassPenguin

Just on the topic of sharing docs made with this project, should we have a google form or something to report inappropriate codes? If we receive an inappropriate code, we could blacklist it.

84375

p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p- wrote:

84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
It's save codes with a topic.


Luckily, there's a filter for any text that doesn't require a blacklist, which is google translate since it blocks out anything that you write inappropriately. Then if they do make anything bad I can make a blacklist with their name, that would give them access to the project, but not the codes.

In case you were wondering, no - they can't remove their name from the list because you loose access to cloud once you go inside the project to prevent cheating.

Maybe you could help make a scanner? I have an Idea for one that filters out any letters, and then looks and sees if you can make anything bad with the text, but maybe you could help

It may be feasible. I've asked a Scratch Team member to take a look and give their opinion. Would you mind explaining how the save codes will work? I don't think I understand how the project will be able to save creations and read the save codes without a cloud variable, unless every time someone wants a code you go into the project and edit a normal variable that is just part of the project.

As for the scanner- well, I could be wrong, but that may not be possible on Scratch. I don't think we have the right tools to analyze drawings. Maybe a very rough (and extremely strict) one could be made, like some shape sensors that I've seen, but it would be quite difficult. Your idea may work

And though people couldn't remove themselves from the blacklist, they could still go into the project code and access the save codes (this is unable to be prevented, as long as they can look inside the project). If this is allowed I would suggest that people on the blacklist not be able to type in savecodes.

I do hope this is allowed, it would be quite cool to see on Scratch.

84375

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

Just on the topic of sharing docs made with this project, should we have a google form or something to report inappropriate codes? If we receive an inappropriate code, we could blacklist it.

You could blacklist it or just plain delete it, if you're the project owner. A Google Form would have to be completely anonymous, to protect Scratcher privacy.

I know I'm counteracting all of your guys' responses, and it may seem like I'm against this project, but I'm just trying to make sure that this is within the rules- I really would love to see this made

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84375 wrote:

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
We're going to use save codes.

Save codes use cloud, just saying. But I would ask the Scratch Team whether this will be ok if certain parameters are met.
no, you post the codes in a topic.


For moderating, yes - they would be in a variable but I would doubt that anybody would try to upload that.

Za-Chary

If you are sharing the drawings via a save code, I suspect it might be okay. I would encourage another moderator's opinion on that if they have a different one. We allow save codes for game level creators, for instance, and it is definitely possible to share levels with bad words in it, but I don't find it very likely and it doesn't seem like a widespread problem.

If the project uses cloud variables to share drawings, then it is definitely not okay — there are not really any preventative measures you can take there that we would be satisfied with.

84375

p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p- wrote:

84375 wrote:

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
We're going to use save codes.

Save codes use cloud, just saying. But I would ask the Scratch Team whether this will be ok if certain parameters are met.
no, you post the codes in a topic.


For moderating, yes - they would be in a variable but I would doubt that anybody would try to upload that.

Ok, so the save codes won't automatically upload to the project, am I right?

You'd be surprised what people will do to get around rules. It's kinda sad, really.

(Edit: I got ninja'd by a Scratch Team member LOL)

TheGlassPenguin

Za-Chary wrote:

If you are sharing the drawings via a save code, I suspect it might be okay. I would encourage another moderator's opinion on that if they have a different one. We allow save codes for game level creators, for instance, and it is definitely possible to share levels with bad words in it, but I don't find it very likely and it doesn't seem like a widespread problem.

If the project uses cloud variables to share drawings, then it is definitely not okay — there are not really any preventative measures you can take there that we would be satisfied with.
Ok. We probably won't use cloud variables. We'll use save codes then, but we'll still need a scanner to prevent cussing in shared docs.

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84375 wrote:

p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p- wrote:

84375 wrote:

Wait, if it isn't cloud, how is it going to save drawings for people to be able to view?

Moderators may work, but the moderators, or honestly anyone with any experience with code would still be seeing inappropriate content if someone decided to use the project for that, and I'm not sure what ST would think about that. Honestly, if this project were able to filter out that kind of stuff using image scanning, this would be a really cool thing.
It's save codes with a topic.


Luckily, there's a filter for any text that doesn't require a blacklist, which is google translate since it blocks out anything that you write inappropriately. Then if they do make anything bad I can make a blacklist with their name, that would give them access to the project, but not the codes.

In case you were wondering, no - they can't remove their name from the list because you loose access to cloud once you go inside the project to prevent cheating.

Maybe you could help make a scanner? I have an Idea for one that filters out any letters, and then looks and sees if you can make anything bad with the text, but maybe you could help

It may be feasible. I've asked a Scratch Team member to take a look and give their opinion. Would you mind explaining how the save codes will work? I don't think I understand how the project will be able to save creations and read the save codes without a cloud variable, unless every time someone wants a code you go into the project and edit a normal variable that is just part of the project.

As for the scanner- well, I could be wrong, but that may not be possible on Scratch. I don't think we have the right tools to analyze drawings. Maybe a very rough (and extremely strict) one could be made, like some shape sensors that I've seen, but it would be quite difficult. Your idea may work

And though people couldn't remove themselves from the blacklist, they could still go into the project code and access the save codes (this is unable to be prevented, as long as they can look inside the project). If this is allowed I would suggest that people on the blacklist not be able to type in savecodes.

I do hope this is allowed, it would be quite cool to see on Scratch.
I'm thinking that it could find drawings that look like letters (by programming an AI that detects similarities, then drawing a lot of variations of the text), then make the page look like letters to it, and then see if any letters near each other could spell a bad word (by using the strategy above), and then if so showing a message that says ‘this can not be saved’

Za-Chary wrote:

If you are sharing the drawings via a save code, I suspect it might be okay. I would encourage another moderator's opinion on that if they have a different one. We allow save codes for game level creators, for instance, and it is definitely possible to share levels with bad words in it, but I don't find it very likely and it doesn't seem like a widespread problem.

If the project uses cloud variables to share drawings, then it is definitely not okay — there are not really any preventative measures you can take there that we would be satisfied with.
The cloud variables were just so that moderators (for this project) could approve or deny the save code, but if we're making another layer of prevention, I don't see much need for that so I'll scrap that idea.

@84375, would you be willing to help?

Za-Chary

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

Ok. We probably won't use cloud variables. We'll use save codes then, but we'll still need a scanner to prevent cussing in shared docs.
Okay — now I am re-intrigued. How would such a scanner work? I worry that it would have to work similarly to a blacklist, where someone would be able to look inside the project and see a list of bad words. It might not be effective.

84375

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

If you are sharing the drawings via a save code, I suspect it might be okay. I would encourage another moderator's opinion on that if they have a different one. We allow save codes for game level creators, for instance, and it is definitely possible to share levels with bad words in it, but I don't find it very likely and it doesn't seem like a widespread problem.

If the project uses cloud variables to share drawings, then it is definitely not okay — there are not really any preventative measures you can take there that we would be satisfied with.
Ok. We probably won't use cloud variables. We'll use save codes then, but we'll still need a scanner to prevent cussing in shared docs.

From what it sounds like, the owner of the project is going to have to update the project every time someone wants a save code, because without being able to use cloud variables it will not save any creations, but instead when you refresh the page your work will be gone from the normal variables.

An image analyzer would be a good thing to have.

(Edit: I just got ninja'd by a ST member AGAIN XD)

84375

Za-Chary wrote:

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

Ok. We probably won't use cloud variables. We'll use save codes then, but we'll still need a scanner to prevent cussing in shared docs.
Okay — now I am re-intrigued. How would such a scanner work? I worry that it would have to work similarly to a blacklist, where someone would be able to look inside the project and see a list of bad words. It might not be effective.

I would think it would work something like some shape sensor projects I have seen, but it would recognize words instead of shapes. I think it would be acceptable to somehow work a whitelist into it?

I'd have to work out more details, but I could probably help with this, OP

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Za-Chary wrote:

TheGlassPenguin wrote:

Ok. We probably won't use cloud variables. We'll use save codes then, but we'll still need a scanner to prevent cussing in shared docs.
Okay — now I am re-intrigued. How would such a scanner work? I worry that it would have to work similarly to a blacklist, where someone would be able to look inside the project and see a list of bad words. It might not be effective.
Like said above, I would program an AI to recognize similarities between drawings, then I would draw a ton of letters, so it could put down data on the letters, and when you request a save code it looks for those patterns, and if it finds one it adds a little invisible marker there to let itself know the letter _ is there, and after scanning, if it finds any letters together it marks them from left to right with new invisible markers. After that, if when you put the final markers in the translator and it appears blank, it will make the text invalid. If it doesn't work right in the BETA stages of the project, there will be a report difficulties that puts the invalid save-code into a cloud variable along with the username, and I'll look at it and send the user the save-code and update the processor if there seems to be nothing wrong.

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84375 wrote:

I'd have to work out more details, but I could probably help with this, OP
Would you just want to work on the processor, or would you like to help with the whole thing?