I have no issue if you want to argue that god controls evolution. Denying that it happens, however, is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la I can't hear you" whenever somebody says something you disgree with.
They are three in one Father,Son,and Holy Spirit. Something man can not figure out completely until they have seen for themselves. God does exist and He is in control of everything nothing no matter what you do can change that.
Evolution: Exists. Is observed in both is nature and in the laboratory. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX The process described by the Theory of Evolution: May or May not exist. By definition, cannot be proven, but by definition, COULD be disproven - and yet so far, nobody has been able to do so. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX The Christian God: May or may not exist. By definition, can neither be proven or disproven.
Actually Jens, these two "Evolution" projects were purely in response to projects containing some very dubious criticism of evolution. I don't have a religious axe to grind, I am merely defending science from deliberate misinformation. The cleansing of the temple project is something I put together for me RE class, and the Bible Truth quiz is somethign I put together due to the number of people whose criticism of my projects boiled down to "the bible says this so it must be literally true".
Whoa, just noticed that you are indeed some kind of Religion Critic. Great project, although all those arguments *in favor* of creationism are really tiresome...
as soon as I saw quote 3, I just knew that geography would come into this. 'if it wasn't for volcanoes, all the land would be submerged beneath the sea!' says my geography teacher. I think that creationists are so close minded because they get brainwashed by the people they trust more than anyone in the world- their parents. since back about 2000 years ago when they were too primative to believe anything else, i bet that if we invented time travel and an anti gravity belt then went back to those times, and said 'look at me im an angel! god has sent me to tell you that... ... uh... you must jump from a high place everyday for the rest of your life otherwise you will go to hell!' they'd all believe you and right now pretty much everyone would be jumping out of their windows everyday. I also have a theory of how jesus dissapeared linked to time travel but im not gunna go into that.
Curious that, isn't it? But in the original hebrew for Genesis 1, the word "Elohim" is used, which is plural, not singular. Just another of those contradictions that suggest we should not consider the Bible to be literally, infallibly true. Instead, like all good scholars, we should interpret it within the bounds of other evidence.
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
I'm not sure how else you describe somebody who rejects masses of scientific evidence from at least 4 unrelated, respected fields (physics, astrophysics, biology, geology) and the direct word of the Vatican, in favour of a passage in the bible from Genesis 1 that is actually contradicted in Genesis 2...
Bats and Birds both fly that is why they can some times be cinsiderd a bird in earlier times but they are mammals that can fly so really if we look at it closely they can fit in both birds not not birds category
No, Paddles, its for people who don't believe in creationism and what to know how to refute some of the arguments creationists use. There would be no point in posting this for creationists, as they are generally too close minded to accept anything so mundane as evidence or facts.
Your first sentence: "This project is for people who do not believe in Creationism" seems to be in error. It would appear to be directed at people who DO believe in Creationism. I apologize for being an annoying nit-picker. Great project, by the way.
The idea that evolution is the opposite of the bible is nonsense. There is little point in having a discussion with anyone so narrow-minded. If one insists on taking the bible literally, they have to "unbelieve" a lot more than evolution. I've often wondered how dinosaurs and their extensive fossil record are reconciled by those who take the bible literally...
The evolution fairytale site is an interesting mis-mash of mis-quotes and big scientific words with no actual argument. Beandude, have you googled "scientific american creationist" and reviewed that information as I reviewed the link you suggested?
Jesus Freak - in Leviticus 11:13-11:19, the bats are described as being birds, not mammals. As per your challenge below, please explain how this is true.
Secondly, can you explain why in Genesis 1 the creation is carried out by Elohim - which is PLURAL - the creation is carried out by gods, not just a single god. If the bible is literally true, please explain who the other gods are. Thank you!
Beandude, if you take the bible literally, then please explain how Genesis describes the creation of the earth in 2 different ways. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Genesis 1: The seven day method - Sky+Earth, Water, Plants, Celestial objects, animals, humans, the a rest. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Genesis 2 - Earth and Heavens, Adam (on a desolate earth), Plants, Animals, Eve.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Both are in the bible, both cannot be true.
evolution is the exact opposite of the Bible. Evolution says we came from monkeys, but the Bible says we are made in the image of God. According to evolution, there was death before man, but the Bible says death came after man. Evolution says the Sun before earth,The Bible say that the earth came before sun. There are other opposites, which you can download at http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=choose&f=20&t=1332
J-F,
Please google "scientific american creationist nonsense" to get the answers to most of the mis-information that you have been fed. On the misinterpretation of "entropy", you will find:
This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law. If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts.
The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word.
More important, however, the Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun's nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials.
And please remember this point: Evolution does not attack the bible.
Evolution is a fake. Look up Entropy, According to thermodynamics things become worse over time not better so evolving makes no sense. When entropy decreases in one place it increases in a another place. Things get worse over time not better unless we do something to make it better but when we do that something else gets worse. So be thankful that God is in control and does good unto His people.
It is clear from your posts that you do not understand what evolution is, as you keep referencing the big bang. Evolutionary theory has absolutely zero to do with how the universe was created (thats a job for physicists) nor does it have to do with how life began (thats Biogenesis, a completely different field). When you don't even understand what the term evolution actually encompasses, how can you expect your arguments against it to be taken seriously. That, and the fact you try to claim evolution is not science makes it clear that you have not reached a decision based on education, but are merely mindlessly parroting fundementalist dogma. God allowed you to evolve a mind, use it! The people who are keeping you wilfully ignorant are NOT doing gods work, merely abusing their positions of authority to gain power over you.
please watch this video:http://youtube.com/watch?v=RQTALEIMRKY&feature=use
evolution is not science. an explosion from no where that created everything and everything came from nothing. that is not science. and evolution is a religion, it is not science, and you have to believe it. how would an explosion create time? its impossible that if your hand or a clock flew together and fit together perfectly, so how would an explosion be able to fit all this together?
dsdude - at no point does this project suggest that there is no God. It does, however, suggest that some people who believe in god are wilfully ignorant.
Of course, you could apply the same argument to watching the tide go out. "Oh look, the water has fallen 2 feet in two hours. Therefore 40 days ago we must have been under 1000 feet of water."
Lucario - the creationist argument is that if the moon is receding at a constant rate, then if the earth is more than 6000 years old at some point in the past the moon would have been so close to the earth that it would have been destroyed.
I'm confused about Arguement 2. I mean I know that all the time the moon is SLOWLY going away from us, but it says on the project that after time it would be "close" enough to destroy itself. It says that it gets closer, then farther. Which one? Because I seriously thin you made a mistake.
It is organised by natural laws. When a moon orbits a planet, thats due to a combination of velocity and gravity, not because the hand of god is constantly nudging it around in a circle. Of course, there is nothing to say that those physical laws were not created by a god or gods - why stop at one, after all...
Does the universe really look that organised to you? And did you know that whilst Einstiend came up with the equations, one of the first people to take general relativity at face value was a *priest* and cosmologist from Belgium - Georges Lemaître.
I agree about the importance of science of course, but I'm just not so sure about theBig Bang. Based on what I know... No I didn't learn this from the other project, but a dot was randomly spinning faster and faster then it exploded and everything was made. I could just be ignorant and not understand... But how does that make sense? If it does, wouldn't entropy, I think tht's how you spell it... The idea that everything tends to be unorganized basically... Does that not conflict with the fact that an explosion (disorganizing) would organize?
I think the Big Bang theory is as rational explanation, given the physical parameters of the universe, as we can get. But I'm not a cosmologist or astrophysicist so my grasp on the details isn't perfect (I must get around to reading "a brief history of time", one day). I firmly believe that the study of science is a necessity for progress. After all, where would we be is we sat back and decided all disease was due to the will of god, and therefore we shouldn't study medicine?
OK, I won't bother you with it any more though, but (just wondering, like I said I'm interested) I've not done much studying on it, I'm fairly young, but do you support the Big Bang Theory, or just these evolutionary ideas and such?
fbboii999 - this is a direct response to arguments put into another project by somebody trying to rubbish evolution. The arguments are his. I chose not to provide sources due to space, and because the original poster also failed to include any. With good reason, on his part.
and zoctfear... even if you are an Atheist you shouldn't immediately disrepect Christians who have a literal translation of the Bible (not Science)... just saying
Creationist (Christian) speaking: All of his arguments are based on time, and personally I believe in the somewhat popular idea that each "day" God made Earth wasn't actually a day, it could have been many many many years, leaving time for many things to happen such as a controlled big bang, and evolution, which I won't go in to right now. Argument1:sure Argument 2: makes sense to me, 3: yep 4: sure 5: sure 6: right 7:sure, but just wondering... how do they know the distances? is it just a complicated formula type of thing? Last two slides: I Agree! I wish people (mostly Christians) wouldn't take a literal approach to creation, considering the fact that much of the Bible is parables and metaphors, so it would make sense if that was too (as I said earlier) MY THOUGHTS: 1. Are you a Christian or any non-Atheist religion, just wondering because you seemed very passionate about this, while you mentioned the fact that this shouldn't interfere with our (my/Christian) beliefs. 2. Sources would help your argument alot. 3. Is Scratch really the place for this? Sorry about my long comment but it's just a big deal to me
right on! I may be athiest, and hate about 90% of this world, but I think that even if you do believe in god, you should believe in science. Then, your an okay person.
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I have no issue if you want to argue that god controls evolution. Denying that it happens, however, is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la I can't hear you" whenever somebody says something you disgree with.
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They are three in one Father,Son,and Holy Spirit. Something man can not figure out completely until they have seen for themselves. God does exist and He is in control of everything nothing no matter what you do can change that.
(view all replies)Comment Reply
Evolution: Exists. Is observed in both is nature and in the laboratory. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX The process described by the Theory of Evolution: May or May not exist. By definition, cannot be proven, but by definition, COULD be disproven - and yet so far, nobody has been able to do so. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX The Christian God: May or may not exist. By definition, can neither be proven or disproven.
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Actually Jens, these two "Evolution" projects were purely in response to projects containing some very dubious criticism of evolution. I don't have a religious axe to grind, I am merely defending science from deliberate misinformation. The cleansing of the temple project is something I put together for me RE class, and the Bible Truth quiz is somethign I put together due to the number of people whose criticism of my projects boiled down to "the bible says this so it must be literally true".
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Whoa, just noticed that you are indeed some kind of Religion Critic. Great project, although all those arguments *in favor* of creationism are really tiresome...
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as soon as I saw quote 3, I just knew that geography would come into this. 'if it wasn't for volcanoes, all the land would be submerged beneath the sea!' says my geography teacher. I think that creationists are so close minded because they get brainwashed by the people they trust more than anyone in the world- their parents. since back about 2000 years ago when they were too primative to believe anything else, i bet that if we invented time travel and an anti gravity belt then went back to those times, and said 'look at me im an angel! god has sent me to tell you that... ... uh... you must jump from a high place everyday for the rest of your life otherwise you will go to hell!' they'd all believe you and right now pretty much everyone would be jumping out of their windows everyday. I also have a theory of how jesus dissapeared linked to time travel but im not gunna go into that.
(view all replies)Comment Reply
Curious that, isn't it? But in the original hebrew for Genesis 1, the word "Elohim" is used, which is plural, not singular. Just another of those contradictions that suggest we should not consider the Bible to be literally, infallibly true. Instead, like all good scholars, we should interpret it within the bounds of other evidence.
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Mayhem - you said "the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did", but Christianity only has one God???
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Its in Genesis 1, Beandude. And that is before there was a son.
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elohim may refer to the godhead, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
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where does it say that elohim created the universe?
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Genesis 2: Earth and heavens (misty) Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth) Plants Animals Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)
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Day 1: Sky, Earth, light Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
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*Genesis
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It doesn't really contradict as far as I know and I've read Gensis at least three times
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I'm not sure how else you describe somebody who rejects masses of scientific evidence from at least 4 unrelated, respected fields (physics, astrophysics, biology, geology) and the direct word of the Vatican, in favour of a passage in the bible from Genesis 1 that is actually contradicted in Genesis 2...
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depends how you look at it I simpley go by category but I will not say that Bible is false because It not
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Riiiight. How about aeroplanes, wasps and flying phalangers? Are they considered to be birds too, purely because they can fly?
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Btw you got a horrible view of people who are creationist not all are close minded
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Bats and Birds both fly that is why they can some times be cinsiderd a bird in earlier times but they are mammals that can fly so really if we look at it closely they can fit in both birds not not birds category
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No, Paddles, its for people who don't believe in creationism and what to know how to refute some of the arguments creationists use. There would be no point in posting this for creationists, as they are generally too close minded to accept anything so mundane as evidence or facts.
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Your first sentence: "This project is for people who do not believe in Creationism" seems to be in error. It would appear to be directed at people who DO believe in Creationism. I apologize for being an annoying nit-picker. Great project, by the way.
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The idea that evolution is the opposite of the bible is nonsense. There is little point in having a discussion with anyone so narrow-minded. If one insists on taking the bible literally, they have to "unbelieve" a lot more than evolution. I've often wondered how dinosaurs and their extensive fossil record are reconciled by those who take the bible literally... The evolution fairytale site is an interesting mis-mash of mis-quotes and big scientific words with no actual argument. Beandude, have you googled "scientific american creationist" and reviewed that information as I reviewed the link you suggested?
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Jesus Freak - in Leviticus 11:13-11:19, the bats are described as being birds, not mammals. As per your challenge below, please explain how this is true.
(view all replies)Comment Reply
Secondly, can you explain why in Genesis 1 the creation is carried out by Elohim - which is PLURAL - the creation is carried out by gods, not just a single god. If the bible is literally true, please explain who the other gods are. Thank you!
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Beandude, if you take the bible literally, then please explain how Genesis describes the creation of the earth in 2 different ways. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Genesis 1: The seven day method - Sky+Earth, Water, Plants, Celestial objects, animals, humans, the a rest. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Genesis 2 - Earth and Heavens, Adam (on a desolate earth), Plants, Animals, Eve. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Both are in the bible, both cannot be true.
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evolution is the exact opposite of the Bible. Evolution says we came from monkeys, but the Bible says we are made in the image of God. According to evolution, there was death before man, but the Bible says death came after man. Evolution says the Sun before earth,The Bible say that the earth came before sun. There are other opposites, which you can download at http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=choose&f=20&t=1332
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J-F, Please google "scientific american creationist nonsense" to get the answers to most of the mis-information that you have been fed. On the misinterpretation of "entropy", you will find: This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law. If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts. The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word. More important, however, the Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun's nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials. And please remember this point: Evolution does not attack the bible.
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Anyone who thinks the Bible is false show me the verse or chapter and I shall explain how it is true.
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Evolution is a fake. Look up Entropy, According to thermodynamics things become worse over time not better so evolving makes no sense. When entropy decreases in one place it increases in a another place. Things get worse over time not better unless we do something to make it better but when we do that something else gets worse. So be thankful that God is in control and does good unto His people.
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in my projects
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You think the mind can evolve? Ill fix the terms.
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It is clear from your posts that you do not understand what evolution is, as you keep referencing the big bang. Evolutionary theory has absolutely zero to do with how the universe was created (thats a job for physicists) nor does it have to do with how life began (thats Biogenesis, a completely different field). When you don't even understand what the term evolution actually encompasses, how can you expect your arguments against it to be taken seriously. That, and the fact you try to claim evolution is not science makes it clear that you have not reached a decision based on education, but are merely mindlessly parroting fundementalist dogma. God allowed you to evolve a mind, use it! The people who are keeping you wilfully ignorant are NOT doing gods work, merely abusing their positions of authority to gain power over you.
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please watch this video:http://youtube.com/watch?v=RQTALEIMRKY&feature=use evolution is not science. an explosion from no where that created everything and everything came from nothing. that is not science. and evolution is a religion, it is not science, and you have to believe it. how would an explosion create time? its impossible that if your hand or a clock flew together and fit together perfectly, so how would an explosion be able to fit all this together?
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ok so thats 8000 years.
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dsdude - at no point does this project suggest that there is no God. It does, however, suggest that some people who believe in god are wilfully ignorant.
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Of course, you could apply the same argument to watching the tide go out. "Oh look, the water has fallen 2 feet in two hours. Therefore 40 days ago we must have been under 1000 feet of water."
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Lucario - the creationist argument is that if the moon is receding at a constant rate, then if the earth is more than 6000 years old at some point in the past the moon would have been so close to the earth that it would have been destroyed.
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you need to open your mind a bit dsdude, no offense, but science AND God can go hand-in-hand!
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fake fake fake fake there IS such thing as GOD!!!!!!!!!
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I'm confused about Arguement 2. I mean I know that all the time the moon is SLOWLY going away from us, but it says on the project that after time it would be "close" enough to destroy itself. It says that it gets closer, then farther. Which one? Because I seriously thin you made a mistake.
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It is organised by natural laws. When a moon orbits a planet, thats due to a combination of velocity and gravity, not because the hand of god is constantly nudging it around in a circle. Of course, there is nothing to say that those physical laws were not created by a god or gods - why stop at one, after all...
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but if you consider the complexity of the universe, i would consider that pretty organized in some ways
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Like I said... I don't know much, and I honestly can't refute that, for now
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Does the universe really look that organised to you? And did you know that whilst Einstiend came up with the equations, one of the first people to take general relativity at face value was a *priest* and cosmologist from Belgium - Georges Lemaître.
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I agree about the importance of science of course, but I'm just not so sure about theBig Bang. Based on what I know... No I didn't learn this from the other project, but a dot was randomly spinning faster and faster then it exploded and everything was made. I could just be ignorant and not understand... But how does that make sense? If it does, wouldn't entropy, I think tht's how you spell it... The idea that everything tends to be unorganized basically... Does that not conflict with the fact that an explosion (disorganizing) would organize?
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I think the Big Bang theory is as rational explanation, given the physical parameters of the universe, as we can get. But I'm not a cosmologist or astrophysicist so my grasp on the details isn't perfect (I must get around to reading "a brief history of time", one day). I firmly believe that the study of science is a necessity for progress. After all, where would we be is we sat back and decided all disease was due to the will of god, and therefore we shouldn't study medicine?
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OK, I won't bother you with it any more though, but (just wondering, like I said I'm interested) I've not done much studying on it, I'm fairly young, but do you support the Big Bang Theory, or just these evolutionary ideas and such?
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fbboii999 - this is a direct response to arguments put into another project by somebody trying to rubbish evolution. The arguments are his. I chose not to provide sources due to space, and because the original poster also failed to include any. With good reason, on his part.
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and zoctfear... even if you are an Atheist you shouldn't immediately disrepect Christians who have a literal translation of the Bible (not Science)... just saying
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Creationist (Christian) speaking: All of his arguments are based on time, and personally I believe in the somewhat popular idea that each "day" God made Earth wasn't actually a day, it could have been many many many years, leaving time for many things to happen such as a controlled big bang, and evolution, which I won't go in to right now. Argument1:sure Argument 2: makes sense to me, 3: yep 4: sure 5: sure 6: right 7:sure, but just wondering... how do they know the distances? is it just a complicated formula type of thing? Last two slides: I Agree! I wish people (mostly Christians) wouldn't take a literal approach to creation, considering the fact that much of the Bible is parables and metaphors, so it would make sense if that was too (as I said earlier) MY THOUGHTS: 1. Are you a Christian or any non-Atheist religion, just wondering because you seemed very passionate about this, while you mentioned the fact that this shouldn't interfere with our (my/Christian) beliefs. 2. Sources would help your argument alot. 3. Is Scratch really the place for this? Sorry about my long comment but it's just a big deal to me
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right on! I may be athiest, and hate about 90% of this world, but I think that even if you do believe in god, you should believe in science. Then, your an okay person.
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