Chat Rooms - Why You Shouldn't Make Them

joletole

With the all new Scratch 2.0 right around the corner, everyone is super excited about cloud variables, and what you can do with them. When creating these variables, the Scratch Team had to go over a difficult question, how do we make it so that people can't make chat rooms.

If you have read the Community Guidelines (which you should have), then one of the first couple of rules are no chat rooms allowed, at all. You are allowed to use other things, like Skype, or Chatzy, but you can't use Scratch as a chat room.

As some of you may know, the variables allow you to do just that. The Scratch Team has not come out fully and said how they will prevent chats from happening, but in the time being, please do not create chat rooms.

I know I may sound like a mod here, but no, but I am hoping I do become one someday. A long time ago, when I was accepted to be an alpha tester, I decided to create my own chat room, called Scratchat. One day, I came on, and two of my friends (who were both also allowed to test) got into a fight, and it was getting real nasty. I made it so this chat would regenerate every message after 5 minutes. But I realized, if people could swear in my chat room, and get away with it, that would ruin the number one rule of scratch, no swearing.

So, once again, I recommend not to create scratch chats.

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ihaveamac

There's no technical way to fully stop chat rooms (as far as I know), and limiting the length of cloud variables just causes users to make more than one variable for a single chat line. Another thing is that you can impersonate someone: I could say I'm you when I'm not. One possible way is to stop the clients from updating the cloud variables as fast, making any chat rooms unusable since they will be very slow.

Last edited by ihaveamac (Jan. 29, 2013 01:29:51)

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jvvg

ihaveamac
There's no technical way to fully stop chat rooms (as far as I know), and limiting the length of cloud variables just causes users to make more than one variable for a single chat line. Another thing is that you can impersonate someone: I could say I'm you when I'm not. One possible way is to stop the clients from updating the cloud variables as fast, making any chat rooms unusable since they will be very slow.

Well, that presents a whole string of other problems.
The current policy (I think) is that you just flag chatroom projects.

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ihaveamac

jvvg
ihaveamac
There's no technical way to fully stop chat rooms (as far as I know), and limiting the length of cloud variables just causes users to make more than one variable for a single chat line. Another thing is that you can impersonate someone: I could say I'm you when I'm not. One possible way is to stop the clients from updating the cloud variables as fast, making any chat rooms unusable since they will be very slow.
Well, that presents a whole string of other problems.
The current policy (I think) is that you just flag chatroom projects.

What about games that allow chatting between others (such as to plan in a team battle)? Flag those as well, or just projects that are purely chat rooms?

“Keep hacking. It’s what bushing would have wanted.”

Magnie

joletole
…

If you have read the Community Guidelines (which you should have), then one of the first couple of rules are no chat rooms allowed, at all. You are allowed to use other things, like Skype, or Chatzy, but you can't use Scratch as a chat room.

…

Actually, looking over them just now showed no lines stating that there can't be chat rooms. If I remember correctly, that was a rule. You couldn't create IRC channels (or something similar) and publicize them on the forums, though I believe you could if you made a project about it.

If anything, the main thing I'm known for, is the chat room(s)/project(s) that were purely dedicated to chating. I'll admit, it was a little iffy (and still is), however it was accepted and I didn't have any problems other than seeing someone remix my project (which I actually encouraged) and seeing it get taken down (I won't go into details, but I got it “de-closed” after a little discussion). However, I did add a mute/ban/censor (and some moderators) feature which I'm sure helped my situation.

With MathWizz's censor project, I think if people were to add it to their chatroom projects, I think it would be more acceptable. Though the need for a moderator to watch the project does not disappear. With the cloud lists, since they don't automatically erase when you leave the project, it would be easier to moderate/delete offensive posts than in an IRC channel (my chat projects are similar to IRC and how it works).

While I will agree that chat projects should be restricted, I don't think they should be entirely forbidden either. Maybe we could do a similar rule to the custom websites? Require the projects to be whitelisted.

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BigBug667

How is that possible. I mean cloud variables is a way to interact with another each other. The whole point of a chat room is communication. I think you can still communicate without chat rooms.

PerspectiveDesigns

In my opinion we should just allow Chat rooms. I think it's a stupid rule and I don't see the Scratch team trying to prevent them.

cool_dude_2

PerspectiveDesigns
In my opinion we should just allow Chat rooms. I think it's a stupid rule and I don't see the Scratch team trying to prevent them.

yes, they really should!

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TM_

maybe add a screenshot-flag system. So when you are in a chat room and someone bullies you, you can make a screenshot and send it to the scratch team or a moderator. But the problem is: We have user ID's, no names. So i could go into a chat and call myself cool_dude_2. Then i do evil thinkgs and the real cool_dude_2 gets banned from scratch…
It's hard to find something, what helps

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botcrusher

Personaly i think chat rooms should, like any other project, be encouraged to grow
On any sort of scratch app using chat maybe you can make a “disclaimer sprite” warning that this app contains chat. I'll post an example project later using censoring and other helpful tools like muting and if possible a variable that logs how many times a scratcher has tried to swear auto kicking if the var gets to high

Pondering what to work on.

Magnie

TM_
maybe add a screenshot-flag system. So when you are in a chat room and someone bullies you, you can make a screenshot and send it to the scratch team or a moderator. But the problem is: We have user ID's, no names. So i could go into a chat and call myself cool_dude_2. Then i do evil thinkgs and the real cool_dude_2 gets banned from scratch…
It's hard to find something, what helps

They could record which user_id is adding a item to a cloud list. The log would be built into the Scratch player itself. I'm sure it wouldn't bbe too hard to add.

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taddl

PerspectiveDesigns
In my opinion we should just allow Chat rooms. I think it's a stupid rule and I don't see the Scratch team trying to prevent them.

YES
You can swear without any cloud variables, in this forum.
But nobody does (atleast i've never seen somebody who did) and if somebody woould swear, someone else can just report it.

Lightnin

Hi all!

Cloud variables and chat rooms are still up in the air, but it's unlikely we'll be able to support chat rooms in the near future. Moderation takes a lot of time and money, we don't have a ton of either. So we're thinking about creative solutions to these problems, but still have a lot of work to do on them.

Just so it's clear - we have nothing against chatting - it'd be great to have for things like collaborations especially.

But they can lead to a lot of drama, so we need to know that we could keep a close enough eye on them all to keep things safe and positive, even with trolling and drama that happens from time to time.

26,000 active Scratchers a week makes for a lot of chats to read - so it's more than just a matter of reviewing logs.

BoltBait

I have offered my ideas on how to have persistent data without the ability of having chat type projects.

You can read my ideas here: http://beta.scratch.mit.edu/forums/topic/882/

Then, post your opinions of my ideas. Or, you could post your ideas in that thread. If they're better than my ideas, I'll support them!

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botcrusher

The way around it is to make a username and password list connected to cloud variables. When you first add a username you are asked to make a password.

Pondering what to work on.

joletole

PerspectiveDesigns
In my opinion we should just allow Chat rooms. I think it's a stupid rule and I don't see the Scratch team trying to prevent them.

Did you read my post. They are going to be way too hard to moderate.

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botcrusher

joletole
PerspectiveDesigns
In my opinion we should just allow Chat rooms. I think it's a stupid rule and I don't see the Scratch team trying to prevent them.
Did you read my post. They are going to be way too hard to moderate.

well you can easaly make a report button that saves the current chat which if i made a game with chat would be checking every day

Pondering what to work on.

kayybee

botcrusher
joletole
PerspectiveDesigns
In my opinion we should just allow Chat rooms. I think it's a stupid rule and I don't see the Scratch team trying to prevent them.
Did you read my post. They are going to be way too hard to moderate.

well you can easaly make a report button that saves the current chat which if i made a game with chat would be checking every day

but not everybody would check theirs

botcrusher

That is true… But Again disclaimer sprites that dont let you in or disables chat if declined

Pondering what to work on.

Zro716

Oh noes! All the brackets disappeared. I'm sorry if it looks confusing, I thought the new website would make the scratchblocks appear. There should be two variables, “letter”, and “word” and two lists “Bad words” and “Chat”, which I hope you know where to place them.

As a long time Scratcher, I have found new meaning to the name “Scratch”: for me, it means to “scratch that itch”, to come back again and again to realize new ideas in this toy language, even when I'm capable of creating my projects in real programming languages years later. It's a friend that helped me to pursue programming and get me to enjoy its fruit. I'm certain many others who have walked this path as well have grown fond of its importance in their life.

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